Octopus torture?

[sea nmf]

It does appear to be common practice here. I've asked several not to do it. They still do. I swim away.

That being said, I've played peek -a - boo with a few here. That's kind of fun.

I agree with Lynne, though. When they are out on their own, it is a gift.

 

[2Tours N Iraq`]

I think the reason why we view one as offensive and the other as trivial is because the octopus is an intelligent creature and therefore it is easier for us to identify with it. Clams aren't known to possess much intelligence so it doesn't seem as repulsive should one get eaten. Too often we as humans like to see things in shades of gray instead of black & white in an attempt to rationalize the flaws in our own character.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

And if I'm not mistaken, isn't harassing marine life a felony? I could have sworn I was told something like that by my instructor, that harassing marine life or otherwise antagonizing it is taken very seriously by the feds.

There is a federal law against harassing marine mammals but not against harassing marine life. There are protected areas where harassing marine life may very well be considered illegal.

Seems to be a cultural thing in Maui... The DM probably destroyed a couple hundred years worth of coral growth just so some idiot diver could "pet" an octopus for maybe three or four seconds.

How big was the coral head and what dive site were you at? Each side of all Hawaiian Islands has very large waves seasonally; If a person is able to turn something over, waves probably do much more damage every year. If you were at Molokini, Honolua or Ahihi there are laws against such activity.

While it isn't necessarily illegal to "pet" (read harass) the wildlife, it is morally and ethically wrong. My advice to those engaging in this practice is to think about the possibility of someone coming into their home in the middle of the night just to "pet" them.

Other than the 3 areas listed above, Maui waters are open season for hunters. Octopus are killed for personal and commercial consumption every day, as well as just to be cut up as bait (eels cut up too). I would like the Octopi at my dive sites to live their entire year of life-span, so I teach them to hide better. With a briefing and de-briefing along those lines, gently catching an Octopus and putting it in an impressionable youngsters hand can have way more positive ecological impact than looking at an eyeball from a couple feet away, especially with the privileged kids visiting Maui resorts that may make the legislative decisions in years to come.

 

[archman]

Cutting short a long lifespan is much worse, IMO. Octopuses generally live about a year, losing a month or two is no big deal.

The lifespan argument centers around one of fecundity. Which in the case of the octopus, is only relevant at the very end of their life.

Ergo, killing a 1-yr old octopus is still far worse than killing a 30-year old clam. The octopus will have never had an opportunity to reproduce.

 

[TSandM]

I don't feel good about contributing to the death of anything underwater, even when it's just a natural cycle. I was doing a dive in the San Juan Islands last fall, and found a big, beautiful female kelp greenling. I had my light on her, because I love the way their markings light up, when a huge ling cod came whizzing over my shoulder and GRABBED her. I felt terribly guilty . . . I fingered her for assassination!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How big was the coral head and what dive site were you at? Each side of all Hawaiian Islands has very large waves seasonally; If a person is able to turn something over, waves probably do much more damage every year. If you were at Molokini, Honolua or Ahihi there are laws against such activity.

I don't recall for sure as it was four years ago ... but I think it was Five Graves ... the coral head was fairly large ... maybe waist high ... and it showed no sign of previous damage that I could detect ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't feel good about contributing to the death of anything underwater, even when it's just a natural cycle. I was doing a dive in the San Juan Islands last fall, and found a big, beautiful female kelp greenling. I had my light on her, because I love the way their markings light up, when a huge ling cod came whizzing over my shoulder and GRABBED her. I felt terribly guilty . . . I fingered her for assassination!

I'd prefer to think of it as waiting table for the ling ...

If you should ever dive in Bonaire, expect to see a lot of that on night dives ... the tarpon LOVE dive lights ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[sambolino44]

When I got certified in Minnesota the instructors taught us to crush the shells of snails and feed them to the fish. In Corsica the DMs broke apart sea urchins and fed them to groupers to give us a show. Here in Washington, on a recent night dive my buddy was the owner of my LDS. I had mentioned to him how much I wanted to see an octopus, having never seen one locally. He said he'd make sure I saw one. Sure enough he found one in a jar. Then he broke the jar open to let me play with it! I didn't expect that. When we got back to the shore I told him how I felt about it, and he understood.

Actively or passively I was a participant in all of these events. Sometimes the excitement takes over and your values get put aside temporarily; then you feel guilty about it later. Now that I've fed the fish and seen the octopus I don't want to do it anymore, but I didn't feel that strongly about it before.

The only time I ever said anything to anybody about it was the last time. Until we start spreading the news (preaching to the choir doesn't count!) that this kind of behavior is unacceptable it will go on. But more important than just telling somebody not to do something they've been programmed to do (tips talk, BS walks), I think engaging somebody in a discussion of WHY this is bad is more powerful.

I've heard the arguments about how to treat animals based on our perception of their intelligence. Like, it's OK to smash a mosquito because they're dumb, but it's bad to torture a horse because they feel pain. Well, I got news for you. Humane treatment of animals has nothing to do with the animals and everything to do with our own humanity.

 

[lazyturtle]

Complain directly to the shop. Onboard the boat mention (loudly) that you're not going to leave a tip specifically because of that sort of behavior. I see a lot of guides doing this in Hawaii, and drives me insane.

 

[StevenN]

It's great to observe the marine life in its natural state but it's wrong to molest them for entertainment.