Octo vs no octo

[boulderjohn]

Several years ago our shop certified a young man who then looked to purchase equipment. His father had learned to dive in the 1960's, and had stopped diving just about the time alternate air sources first started to appear. He told his son what some people were saying back when he was still diving, that the octo was an unnecessary gizmo that a real diver didn't need. The young man was quickly dissuaded from that opinion by the arguments you have already heard.

Your friend is the only other person I have ever heard make a similar argument, either in person or in any of the online forums I have visited. The arguments I have heard are all about what kind of alternate works best, not whether or not you should have one.

Being the only one in step in the parade does not make one automatically wrong, but it should make one wonder.

 

[DaleC]

Hi Tim,
You are getting some good advice here. I applaud your enthusiasm and encourage your desire to learn more about diving but remember there is a time and place for everything.
The advice about octo's is good and I can't add anything really. The argument about them not being streamlined is faulty when you consider adding a pony as a substitute. A pony is far less streamlined and a complicated solution to a simple problem (failure of your primary reg). Being able to switch to your octo is the simple solution. As far as the octo being full of sand - that is a result of poor diving habits. Change the habit, not the gear. A properly positioned and serviced octo should be as operable as your primary.
As BJ said, the idea of a single reg set up springs from older times. Some divers still use this set up but they have a lot of experience with them and are well aware of, and prepared for, the short comings it presents.

As far as soloing goes. I would say wait and see also. I neither encourage nor discourage the practice and solo myself but you need to base your decisions on experience. First things first. Study, take your OW, get some dives in, practice your basic skills, become familiar with your gear, learn from other divers, perhaps take more advanced courses etc... as you do this you will begin to be able to evaluate your skills and make a more realistic appraisal of when, and if, you should consider soloing.

I would discourage the use of a pony in the beginning of your diving too. I dive with a pony and, in the big picture, they are fairly straight forward to use but they do present significant task loading to a new diver. Task loading, in case you haven't heard the term, is adding one difficult task on top of another. Seemingly simple tasks can become far more difficult under water. In the beginning just breathing and moving underwater will be a task. On to this you will add checking guages and hand signals. On to this you will add buoyancy (moving up and down in the water column). On to this you will add maintaining contact with a buddy. On to this you will add navigation.
You get the picture. Your course is designed to pile these on slowly so you are not overwhelmed by them. Adding a pony to your gear configuration too early adds a series of new tasks that you just don't need. It would be far more advantageous to spend that time developing good buddy and share air skills. When you have those down pat you can think about a pony. A pony should not be a substitute for poor buddy skills on your part.
Hope some of this helps. Except for the octo thing I'm not being negative - just saying wait and see. I remember how hard that was when I was young :cool2:
Dale.

 

[shawnferd]

I might also add that your friend was incorrect on human error being the only REAL reason for an OOA situation. Although unlikely, esp. with proper maintenance, first stage leaks, cracked hoses, malfunctioning SPGs, and broken computers can also lead to this.

Even if your dive buddy was OOA due to a miscalculation on his/her part can you live with them dying because you were too cool for an octo? Death sentence for a math error or lack of attention?

Because the consequences are sometimes the ultimate consequence, and we sometimes dive with loved ones and good friends, I feel it is unconscionable to not have some sort of backup second stage.

BTW your friend doesn't sound like a good dive buddy. Esp for a newbie (I'm one, too) who is more prone to errors leading to OOA.

Good luck, have fun, and please be careful.

 

[spoolin01]

do you use one

I've always carried one, never used it. After 200 dives or so where its only role was occasionally as a distraction and annoyance, I ditched the separate octo and went to the integrated octo/inflator. Another 200 dives and I still have yet to have a use for the octo feature. But it keeps everyone else happy, and as you've heard, there could be times you might find it convenient.

Buddies and octos are the 3rd rail of scuba, so it's better to learn to dive in conformity with standard practices. Once you know more you can make better informed decisions about something like this. Will it ever be critical in saving a life or limb? - it doesn't look that way to me, but I dive conservatively with respect to gas and deco risk management, and I'm the risk taker in my dive circle. I also haven't dived a lot with strangers. I wouldn't venture to comment on the octo's role in technical diving. I think the most useful advice you've gotten here could well be that you're likely to find it impractical to dive without it - buddies and dive operators expect one - yet it certainly doesn't have to be unreliable or unmanageable to wear one. You might even find you like what it offers you in terms of capability and confidence.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Just get the octo. You can get one for $50 used, it doesn't really get in the way, and it gives you some extra level of safety and your buddy is a lot safer with it. PADI doesn't even teach ascending using a single second stage anymore: an octo is considered a central part of your equipment.

 

[bigtim6656]

yes i he is on here. Seem to know his stuff but for reasons we all know i will not give his user name.

One school of thought is that your octo is held by a necklace: Manta Regulator/Octo Necklace Reg Necklace/RED with reviews at scuba.com

If you lose your primary or you donate your primary to a buddy, you just use the octo that is conveniently located just below your chin. It doesn't get any simpler than this!

In any event, YOU are the one that uses the octo according to this philosophy.

Continuing the idea is to use a 5' or longer hose on your primary so you can get your out-of-air buddy away from you while they use your primary Halcyon: The Doing It Right Dive Gear Company

You can also search for the raging debate over AIR 2 octos that are mounted as part of the BC inflator system. Like http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/258675-i-am-little-nervous.html

Peraonally, I used a ScubaPro AIR 2 for a very long time (like since 1988) and I like it a lot. However, when I decided to move from my jacket BC (which I also like a lot) to a BP/W, I decided to leave it behind. The reasons for not using this type of octo probably outweigh the benefits of a reduction in the number of hoses.

Are you sure the person that gave you the advice is actually a diver?

Richard

 

[bigtim6656]

it is not the money not at all. It is safty infact i thought about a cheaper second stage reg in place of the octo. I think your all right. when there is 100 people to one infavor of something it is easy to say whether or not to use it.

Just get the octo. You can get one for $50 used, it doesn't really get in the way, and it gives you some extra level of safety and your buddy is a lot safer with it. PADI doesn't even teach ascending using a single second stage anymore: an octo is considered a central part of your equipment.

 

[imasinker]

BigTim,

It is pretty obvious you havent taken the course yet? You would see for yourself Tim that having an octo is one of the most important pieces of diving equipment you will need. If you seem to get a feeling like people are replying harshly to you thats because your FRIEND seems to be a bit out dated himself. The people here are really helpful so please Tim read everything and remember that. I would ask how many dives he has done, how deep and when was his last dive. I wouldn't dive with a buddy without an Octo, Did it once I hate to say and will never again. If I have problems and need your help, we can buddy breath but man o man it's that much more a chance I am NOT willing to take. It is your decision to make once your certified on your dive habits and how you wish to dive. You need to be as safe not only for yourself but for your dive buddy. An octo is not going to cause that much drag or hard for you to sink. Even if it did, It would still be worth it. You should take care of your octo the same as you take care of every other peice of your equipment. Get an Octo! and in my opinion don't dive with your friend because when shyt hits the fan, your likely the one who will suffer and pay the price. Are you willing to put your life on the line for the small cost of an octo?

One more piece of info...FACT.... Nothing is fool proof, anything can break down at any given time without warning. Read the many posts here, people have checked over their equipment, jumped in and had problems. What helps us in that situation if it arises, is having a back up, and an Octo is back up.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

About 18 years ago, a buddy and I were doing some diving in 90 feet or so where we were deploying and recovering some oceanographic equipment. We were both very expereinced and used to diving together.

We were using the "work" regs given to us by the Research foundation we worked for. The regs were very simple, a pressure guage and a single second stage (no inflator, no octo). I thought it was stupid, but since they did NOT want us using our own regs (for safety reasons, LOL) I used the work reg. Plus I used it a lot for recreational beach dives in 20 feet, so I kinda got used to it.

My buddy and I fisnished a work dive early and decided to stay down and grab some bugs before the ascent. We were always close to each other on air consumption and I still had about 700-800 psi maybe, so I assumed he did too. Grabbed a few bugs in 30 seconds, asked my buddy if it was cool if I went under the ledge again and got a few more and he signal ok. I came out with 2 more bugs in 30 seconds and throw them in the bag. Immediiately he gives me the slash across the throat and signals to buddy breath!

Boy was I pissed! I knew I was low on air, we were both heavy because we dumped all air from BC to crawl under ledges to get bugs and now I had a pretty big bag of bugs clipped off and no power inflator, no octo, my hands were full of expensive stuff and I didn't even want to look at my pressure guage.

I grabbed my buddy and started kicking like hell. I REALLY did not want to buddy breath in a situation like this and I was already figuring that he was going to pay for my expensive light, pole spear and bag of bugs if I had to ditch them due to his stupidity (obviously I expected him to ascend alone if low on air or tell me to ascend earlier instead of signaling to get more bugs).

We swam up pretty fast, but it was hard to get started because we were both quite negative on the bottom. I kept my face in his and figured he would take the reg when he really needed it. He somehow sipped the bottom of his tank all the way up without taking mine, but that cured me of not using an octo or pony bottle on anything other than a shallow dive.

Wear it around your neck on a necklace and it solves many of the common problems with an octopus getting dirty, free flowing or getting caught on stuff.

 

[Peter Guy]

Bigtim -- a few more comments from the SB peanut gallery:

Feel free NOT to get "an octo" (I don't have one on any of my rigs) -- BUT what I do have on my BC is a combo inflator/regulator (NOT an "octopus regulator that can be dragged in the sand and create a drag") -- no "octo" but you do have a backup (secondary) regulator. And yes this is primarily a semantic difference!

Spool wrote

I've always carried one, never used it.

While a bit off topic, Spoolin, is that true? You've done some 200 dives and NEVER done any air sharing drills? Just because you aren't in a class any more doesn't mean you shouldn't practice your basic safety skills periodically. Reminds me of a stupid instructor I know who bragged that he and his buddy had NEVER practiced air sharing and they didn't need to practice since they demonstrated air sharing to students in class. Why wouldn't you want to practice the basic skills with the people with whom you normally dive?