Octo / Alternate or safe second

[Stu S.]

Splitlip, you ever dive with Josh Chung in Jupiter? Young guy, with really long bottom time. He's mostly a solo diver. He has the octo-inflater. If you spearfish or lobster, you are a basically a solo diver. An octo-inflater is OK for those dives as typically the only person to rescue is yourself.

The above mentioned item is not for all of us. Going to dive wrecks or caves? Get an octopus, and consider the long hose.

 

[Splitlip]

No. Don't know JOsh. By name anyway.

Could not agree with you more re penetration dives.

 

[Scott L]

The chief reason cited for adopting the inflator/reg gizmos is streamlining yet the vast majority of users own jacket BCD's which are a virtual sea anchor.

I just don't get it. A regular octo on a 24" hose w/bungee necklace has absolutely no downside...

 

[Crush]

The chief reason cited for adopting the inflator/reg gizmos is streamlining yet the vast majority of users own jacket BCD's which are a virtual sea anchor.

I just don't get it. A regular octo on a 24" hose w/bungee necklace has absolutely no downside...

I believe that cutting down on clutter is why people move to such devices. The presence of extra hoses can be daunting to a new diver. I also feel that the security of knowing where the octo is at all times is reassuring to new divers. Wanting to know where my octo was at all times is the reason I went to a necklace, and then later to a bungee.

That being said, if streamlining is the impetus for such a change, I'd first take a hard look at the BC and see if it has integrated weights. I would venture to guess that integrated weights add five times the drag that an octo would.

 

[Scott L]

I believe that cutting down on clutter is why people move to such devices. The presence of extra hoses can be daunting to a new diver. I also feel that the security of knowing where the octo is at all times is reassuring to new divers. Wanting to know where my octo was at all times is the reason I went to a necklace, and then later to a bungee.

First, a new diver doesn't have a reference point for hose counts. I don't know what could be easier than lowering your head & jaw then inserting a second stage bungeed correctly around one's neck. If reduction of hoses is the primary goal, going with a wrist mounted AI computer is the way to go. Once again, all such streamlining is negated by a factor of 10 with a jacket style BCD.

That being said, if streamlining is the impetus for such a change, I'd first take a hard look at the BC and see if it has integrated weights. I would venture to guess that integrated weights add five times the drag that an octo would.

I agree. A SS BP/wing moves 6lbs from that area. Additional weight can be added on the waist webbing via many different product options. The DUI shoulder supported weight pouches is also a good solution...

 

[Akimbo]

Hey all, Looking for feedback / opinions on a Atomic safe second vs a regular octo…

Depends. By now you have received a lot of opinions, all of which are valid. The vast majority of divers will never have to use an Octo. It is a backup device for your buddy more than yourself; though the courtesy is hopefully reciprocal.

It is my observation that new divers tend to prefer them for the stated reasons. Divers who outgrow them because they choose to pursue more demanding diving activities tend to feel betrayed. Geezers in my circle think they are for sissies and should be banished from the seas along with all the common air breathers.

The Atomic SS1 is one of the better options in the Combo class. Sometimes the corrugated and supply hose lengths are a little short (on all combos) so should be changed if you cannot comfortably use it as a primary.

You must handle the inflator every time you adjust your BC. That's thousands of times compared to maybe never as an Octo. The SS1 as an inflator (like all combos) is physically much larger compared to a dedicated inflator. This may not be an issue for physically larger people, however smaller people are more likely to tire of it. So, which option sucks less in your case? Go through the motions if in doubt.

Look at it this way, as long as you get a good price you won't feel so betrayed if you outgrow it.

 

[Crush]

First, a new diver doesn't have a reference point for hose counts.

Then I must now not be, nor have I ever been, a new diver.

When I saw the Air2 I thought "damn - fewer hoses around me - I should have bought one." I didn't care about streamlining - that is largely a tech/DIR/GUE obsession. I am paying attention to streamlining now, but not when I was beginning, nor did it inform my decision making.

Now I am happy to not have an Air2.

 

[RAWalker]

The chief reason cited for adopting the inflator/reg gizmos is streamlining yet the vast majority of users own jacket BCD's which are a virtual sea anchor.

I just don't get it. A regular octo on a 24" hose w/bungee necklace has absolutely no downside...

My first BCD was a Sherwood Tortuga it's a back inflator style with integrated weight pockets and Gemini Octo/inflator. As a first setup this served me well. Not all jacket style BCD are anchors. A bigger problem is the number of divers diving overweighted. My wife tried it and liked it also and now it is her primary rig. I still use it when working with students but I now dive a BP&W w/ 5' long hose and a Air3. We also use wireless AI computers.
The hose count is minimal, streamlining is maximized and as a dive professional I've taken the time to become aware of the advantages, disadvantages, how to deal with this type of gear and I am well practiced at doing so.
It is my preference for recreational diving because of it's advantages and because if well practiced it has no other down side for recreational diving.

 

[BDSC]

Hey all, Looking for feedback / opinions on a Atomic safe second vs a regular octo. Have a chance to get one at a good price and wondering why not free up some hoses and stuff hanging about.( yes I have my current one properly stowed ) the concept seems nice. Thanks in advance !!

I have used a similar set-up (AIR II) for the past 19 years and I have yet to find any downside to having/using one. It has been flawless in it's operation and when we did our initial open water, we (students) had no problems doing the BB exercise. Fortunately I have not had to ever use it to share air since my initial class but would have no problem at all using it and donating my primary to the OOA diver. About every 3rd or 4th dive I'll switch over to it for a few minutes and it breathes just fine.

It cracks me up when people talk about "outgrowing it". What is there to outgrow? Do people "outgrow" their other regs and finally settle on an Atomics T2X? Not likely. The Atomic safe second, AIR II, or whatever are fine pieces of equipment and will serve you well if you decide to purchase one and use it.

And by the way, don't let this notion of "reducing drag" be a factor in buying one. This is scuba diving and not NASCAR or Drag Racing. The majority of the time you put on your gear, get in the water, and swim slowly around looking at things. You are not trying to see how fast you can go from 0 - 60 or from this reef to that or from this wreck to the next one. For typical recreational diving, the whole notion of "reducing drag" is highly overrated.

 

[Damselfish]

The combo units definitely do have disadvantages and I don't see the usually cited advantages as being real. But you wont die if you get one, so read about the pros and cons (there's about 4000 threads here that go over them) and ideally try one, then decide for yourself.

FWIW, I learned on one and rented one for a bit and hated it. Went with a real octo when I bought my own gear and it's one of the early gear decisions I don't regret.