Ocean State Scuba

[LobstaMan]

"By the way, it's my understanding that the reason why the scuba gear was handled by a civilian, was due to the defendant trying to make it look like a scuba accident."

I had no idea this happened. I thought as I read that diver went down afterwards and retrieved the gear an brought to the authorities attention who were not interested. I didn't read anything about the defendent having someone do this intentionally.

I think you misundertsood what I was trying to say about the dive gear. The defendant didn't send someone down there to retrieve the gear intentionally. I read the story exactly as you did. I was trying to say that the evidence should not be excluded because it was handled by a civilian as opposed to a CSI type. The reason it was handled like this was because the defendant tricked(supposedly) the authorities and some others into thinking it was an accident. This forced an interested civilian to go back and get the rest of the woman's gear. The defendant should not be rewarded due to his alleged trickery. Hopefully that cleared up my point. If you want to call that scenario neglect on the part of the BVI investigators, I guess you could.

LobstaMan

 

[ScubaSarus]

Good clarification Lobstaman. I definitly understand you now. I interpreted your response differently than what you meant it to be.

And yes, I feel the authorities botched the chance to do a solid and secure beyond reasonable doubt investigation.

Time will tell though.

 

[Flippy]

Realisiticailly what do sort of investigative unit do you think exists on the island of Tortola?

 

[ScubaSarus]

This is what they botched

"James Philip Brown, who runs a dive shop in Tortola, testified the police appeared to have little interest that he had found some of Tyre's scuba gear broken a day after she died."

This (below) may prove me wrong as Totorla has had its shares of suspicious deaths and have convicted people on circumstantial evidence lacking actual Foresnic evidence:

Lois McMillen Murder

A long-time visitor to the BVI at her parent's Tortola villa, Lois Livingston McMillen, a Connecticut artist, was found dead near Soper's Hole on erosion-control rocks, her body battered severely on the head and face, after death by drowning. The four Americans arrested were the son of a neighboring villa owner and his house guests. See A Safe Haven Turns Deadly by John Springer in The Hartford Courant (photo: ctnow.com).

Three of the four Americans, Michael Spicer, Evan George and Alexander Benedetto, were freed on a directed verdict. The fourth, William Labrador, was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Despite the lack of forensic evidence tying any defendant directly to the scene, the jury returned a verdict based on circumstantial evidence, largely the testimony by convicted felon, Jeffrey Plante, that Labrador confessed to the murder while in prison.

More links of interest

 

[ClamBake]

This is what they botched

"James Philip Brown, who runs a dive shop in Tortola, testified the police appeared to have little interest that he had found some of Tyre's scuba gear broken a day after she died."

This (below) may prove me wrong as Totorla has had its shares of suspicious deaths and have convicted people on circumstantial evidence lacking actual Foresnic evidence:

Lois McMillen Murder

A long-time visitor to the BVI at her parent's Tortola villa, Lois Livingston McMillen, a Connecticut artist, was found dead near Soper's Hole on erosion-control rocks, her body battered severely on the head and face, after death by drowning. The four Americans arrested were the son of a neighboring villa owner and his house guests. See A Safe Haven Turns Deadly by John Springer in The Hartford Courant (photo: ctnow.com).

Three of the four Americans, Michael Spicer, Evan George and Alexander Benedetto, were freed on a directed verdict. The fourth, William Labrador, was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Despite the lack of forensic evidence tying any defendant directly to the scene, the jury returned a verdict based on circumstantial evidence, largely the testimony by convicted felon, Jeffrey Plante, that Labrador confessed to the murder while in prison.

More links of interest

This is a great example of what prosecutors and defense attorneys refer to as the "CSI Effect." Believe it or not, guilt and innocence can still be decided under our legal system (and others) based ENTIRELY on circumstantial evidence. No DNA. No finger prints. No spectrometer. No fancy laser recreation of bullet path. The problem is that jurys - and the public - have come to expect it.

CSI Effect
Main article: CSI Effect
The "CSI Effect" (sometimes referred to as the "CSI syndrome") is a reference to the phenomenon of popular television shows such as the CSI franchise, Law & Order, Silent Witness and Waking the Dead raising crime victims' and jury members' real-world expectations of forensic science, especially crime scene investigation and DNA testing.[56] This is said to have changed the way many trials are presented today, in that prosecutors are pressured to deliver more forensic evidence in court.[57][58]

 

[LobstaMan]

This is a great example of what prosecutors and defense attorneys refer to as the "CSI Effect." Believe it or not, guilt and innocence can still be decided under our legal system (and others) based ENTIRELY on circumstantial evidence. No DNA. No finger prints. No spectrometer. No fancy laser recreation of bullet path. The problem is that jurys - and the public - have come to expect it.

CSI Effect
Main article: CSI Effect
The "CSI Effect" (sometimes referred to as the "CSI syndrome") is a reference to the phenomenon of popular television shows such as the CSI franchise, Law & Order, Silent Witness and Waking the Dead raising crime victims' and jury members' real-world expectations of forensic science, especially crime scene investigation and DNA testing.[56] This is said to have changed the way many trials are presented today, in that prosecutors are pressured to deliver more forensic evidence in court.[57][58]

I've never heard it referred to as that before, but I agree 100% with the theory and with the idea that most peole think that w/o direct evidence you can't convict anyone. There was a case in Quincy w/i the past 8 or 9 years or so where a defendant was convicted of kiling his wife even though they never found her body. How's that for circumstantial evidence!

Once again, I wouldn't want to be in the current defendant's position....a guilty verdict based almost completely on a confession to another convict, oh boy.

LobstaMan

 

[ScubaSarus]

I've learnt something new here. You guys have opened my eyes to this much more than I thought was possible. I too have never heard of the CSI syndrom before and would probably be one of the jurors demanding strict hard evidence based on what I know although circumstancial evidence if strong and could infuence me in a big way.

 

[all4scuba05]

Is it "The Innocense Project" that is now helping those who were wrongly convicted years ago. I forgot the name but I believe they are attorneys who now are able to use DNA to clear the names of convicted prisoners.

I'm sure some of you know about the guy who was convicted of rape and murder back before DNA was as good as it is today. I believe it was he who was convicted based on an eyewitness. I wonder what percentage of people in prison were wrongly convicted. Circumstantial evidence isn't good enough for me to convict with a clear conscious. Not for me. However, it DOES sway the jury. The prosecution knows this. Even if the defense objects, it's too late. The jury has heard/seen it.

I sure hope justice doesn't fail in this case.

 

[Justwander]

Does anyone know if the shop is still open? I called last week because I didn't ever receive my AOW cert card. I was told it would be taken care of, yet it won't be if the shop is closed down. I think Matt is who I was speaking to and I'll feel like a pain calling the shop and asking about a cert card, while there are slightly bigger issues that are being dealt with.

 

[RIOceanographer]

Does anyone know if the shop is still open? I called last week because I didn't ever receive my AOW cert card. I was told it would be taken care of, yet it won't be if the shop is closed down. I think Matt is who I was speaking to and I'll feel like a pain calling the shop and asking about a cert card, while there are slightly bigger issues that are being dealt with.

I don't know if the shop is still open or not, but it isn't being a pain for you to call and check up on it. You paid a lot of money for that card and you have to look out for your own interests, particularly given that the shop's future would seem questionable with everything that is going on.