Observing versus touching

[DaleC]

It's never made sense to me at all how you have this group of people (divers) who are fascinated with the beauty and complexity of the undersea world, and then they get off the boat and go have lobster and grouper for dinner...

I can agree with this part though I do not talk about it much (it's my personal choice, not something I foist on others). I've been a Vegetarian for about 15 years.

If you eat it, you caused it to be killed, probably by commercial means, which is the most destructive direct human interaction we have with marine organisms. Last time I looked, killing was a little worse than touching. So, if one wants to criticize touching one sure better not partake in a seafood diet.

I have also worked with marine organisms for about 30 years, as a hobbyist, as part of the home aquarium industry, and as a naturalist who studies habitat and behavior. I have touched, handled, trapped, transported and interacted with marine life and find they are not the delicate flowers the dive industry tries to portray them as (they are, for the most part, hardy and robust, as long as one does not violate certain conditions). That message is directly related to the fact that this industry creates incredible stress on habitat by dropping boat load after boat load of unskilled divers on the same sites day after day and needs to mitigate the potential harm they are causing by creating such general blanket policies.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I personally consider any dive where contact was made with any living coral, fish, or crustacean to be a failure and an opportunity to improve my diving skills for the future. On the other hand, I agree that with the stated opinion that the sum total of all worldwide recreational scuba impact pales in comparison to even one small nation's commercial fishing impact. But that doesn't mean we can't set a good example.

It's never made sense to me at all how you have this group of people (divers) who are fascinated with the beauty and complexity of the undersea world, and then they get off the boat and go have lobster and grouper for dinner. It's not like I think lobstering or spearing or even commercial fishing is morally wrong, but how can you have a true sense of wonder about undersea animals and then also enjoy killing them and eating them. I've always been in the extreme minority on this, and that's fine, but it just never made sense. I've never touched (or eaten) an undersea animal on purpose for as long as I've been an adult, and I never will.

Maybe my perspective has something to do with having been raised on a farm. When I was a kid we raised a lot of our food. My brothers and I were responsible for the rabbits. They all had names. For a time they were pets. We fed them and cared for them. They were our playmates. Then when it was time we whapped them on the head with a bat, gutted 'em, skinned 'em, quartered 'em, wrapped them in paper, wrote their names on the package and put them in the freezer. They provided our meals, for which we were thankful.

The sea isn't any different. Literally everything in there is both predator and prey. Even those cute little nudibranchs everybody is so fond of taking pictures of are voracious predators. It's the way of the world ... no matter what choices you make, everything you eat was once alive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Goodtime Adventures]

It may not be your natural environment but I consider it mine. Animals in a natural setting touch each other all the time. Ling Cod lay on top of cucumbers, starfish huddle together, shrimp crawl on top of crabs... The only problem is when divers become tourists and congregate on the same place, day after day, putting unnatural pressure on one area or members of a species.

Oh, I see you are part of the problem of congregating divers on one area day after day. Silly bunt.

BTW, funny way to look at life. Don't touch anything underwater ever - punch someone in the face. Too bad your "sense of respect" is conditional on behavior.

'Silly bunt'? Really? How mature....Thanks for this, and to NWGrateful Diver, who also pulled my response to pieces. Jeez guys, its just my opinion! But...first of all I categorically did not state that I wander round punching people in the face - just that that's how it makes me feel when I see people with a blatant disregard for the underwater world and the creatures in it. An opinion that's evidently shared by countless others. I appreciate that in certain specific areas of diving this stand point may change depending of the purpose of the dive itself, but the OP is talking specifically about recreational diving, hence my opinion.

The ocean is definitely not your natural environment. If you feel so strongly that it is, then off you go and interact/touch/prod/whatever you do that you feel is so acceptable - but without your scuba gear. See how long you last. Or get a job at Seaworld with a bunch of other delusionals who share your sense of entitlement. I get that you have several years of experience with marine creatures, but that doesn't necessarily make what you do OK in my opinion. And it is just my opinion. Its OK if yours is different, but I don't have to agree with it, and the fact that I don't definitely doesn't make me a 'bunt'!

Sorry to the OP, you appear to have opened a can of worms here! This is one of the more touchy topics in diving it seems! But unfortunately as is often the case, when a bunch of people with varying strong opinions are on the same forum, it somehow turns into a competition of who can rip the others to pieces the quickest, as opposed to actually gathering a selection of answers for you to form your own opinion on your initial question. Shame....

 

[DaleC]

Actually, if you know the source, I was calling myself one not you.

You are entitled to your opinion but when it infers that those who disagree are doing something "wrong" then they are entitled to a rebuttal. The fact that you call employees at Seaworld delusional is just another odd statement. I suppose you got that from watching Blackfish.

What you are expressing is an emotional reaction to an aquatic concern. I am expressing an experiential reaction. Your emotions tell you you want to protect marine life but nothing in my experience suggests the occasional touch by a human has any negative effects on marine species, in general. That does not mean I promote wanton handling of species, but neither do I feel I have harmed something by touching them.

The problem with emotional stances is that they can come and go, flavour of the month, and call for nothing in the way of real commitment other than the expression of moral outrage. They also tend to promote unhealthy and unbalanced reactions (like wanting to punch someone for touching something) and to justify unreasonable actions (ala eco-terrorist activities).

I prefer to understand what is actually taking place and to govern my behavior according to actions that will actually provide long term benefit. You can read about my ongoing (year 5) local fish study here: http://thecultuslakeproject.weebly.com/

As for taking my scuba gear off; I defer to the captain:

"The best way to observe a fish is to become a fish. And the best way to become a fish - or a reasonable facsimile thereof; is to don an underwater breathing device called the aqualung"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I get that you have several years of experience with marine creatures, but that doesn't necessarily make what you do OK in my opinion. And it is just my opinion. Its OK if yours is different, but I don't have to agree with it, and the fact that I don't definitely doesn't make me a 'bunt'!

Sorry to the OP, you appear to have opened a can of worms here! This is one of the more touchy topics in diving it seems! But unfortunately as is often the case, when a bunch of people with varying strong opinions are on the same forum, it somehow turns into a competition of who can rip the others to pieces the quickest, as opposed to actually gathering a selection of answers for you to form your own opinion on your initial question. Shame....

Actually what I "do" is take pictures. And although I don't generally handle creatures myself ... preferring to photograph them in their natural state ... I have no issue with responsible interaction, under the premises I described previously. My only issue with the discussion is that people shouldn't create rules without understanding why they exist ... and shouldn't be promoting misinformation to rationalize why they hold the opinions they do. And you definitely shouldn't be threatening to "punch in the face" people who don't see things your way. The expression of varying strong opinions are what these forums are for ... threats of violence, not so much ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[iluvtheocean]

i prefer to stay hands off the critters -- tends to be safer (lobsters are not included in this list of course) since some have a nasty bite or sting...

when i saw the topic of the thread -- my first thought though was the tiny bikinis we see on the beach... just look or offer to touch? not that i would...

 

[j2s]

Look what happened when EVE talked ADAM into touching the apple !!!!......Been a down hill slide ever since !!!! ;-O

 

[Blyslv]

Another way to think about it is as a nice scape from a totalitarian prison. Adam and Eve didn't dive, but now we can, bless our lucky stars.

 

[Nemrod]

Hi all,

I just discovered this forum and have a bunch of questions, so please bear with me.

I am a strictly-observe-only kinda diver but my buddy loves to touch/caress gentle-looking sea creatures such as turtles and dolphins despite frequent reminders. Am I being too uptight about this or is there anything else I could do to get him to stop? Thanks in advance.

Ange

If a dolphin comes up to you and rubs against you that is fine but you/he/she should not pursue creatures and force yourself upon them, that is selfish. A few years ago in WPB a large turtle swam right up to my buddy (my DM) and I. We were alone, drifting as the rest of the group had sped away down the reef line. It was a large turtle and first he circled at a distance, then he circled, circled, circled, each time closer when we both realized, all he could do was circle and that he was intentionally circling ever closer. Then we saw it, monofiliment and a hook in his pectoral fin and rear fin was tied and tangled to the trapped pectoral that both fins were trapped against his body. My DM moved straight away and I was right behind, I held the turtle steady so he would quit swimming in circles and the DM cut the line free and dislodged the hook. The turtle did not flinch when the hook was pulled out and remained very still. As soon as released he circled us and then went straight away into the deep blue.

That was a time it would be allowed to touch, otherwise, remind your buddy to stay hands off the reef and the marine life.

N

 

[rongoodman]

I've been to sites where the groupers will swim up to divers and roll over for a tummy rub.