Number one cause of diving fatalities?

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ohn, and others, the problem with the head has to do with the panic a diver experiences, and tries to remain vertical in the water at the surface. This is the same response that happens when swimmers panic. The head's weight then works to push the swimmer/diver down. So head weight becomes a problem if the swimmer/diver tries to keep vertical and head up in the water. We used to call this the "panic/exhaustion syndrome."

Archimedes' Principal applies here as well. If you are on the surface and your total body weight, including the head, is such that a certain amount of the body equal to the size of the head is above water, the diver will float effortlessly with the head above water. It is not because the head is pushing the diver down; it is because of the total weight of the total body. (How hard does an iceberg work to keep that small percentage that is above the water there?) If the head is below water because of that total weight, and the diver wants it above water, the diver has three choices: 1) Drop weights so that the total body weight decreases, 2) Inflate the BCD so the total volume increases, or 3) kick hard to overcome the lack of buoyant force. It is when divers elect choice #3 that exhaustion kicks in.

The diver could instead chose not to hold the head above water, in which case a snorkel will be a great help.

But back to the original point--a properly weighted diver with an empty tank should easily float with the head above water, especially if weights are dropped and/or the BCD inflated to ANY degree.
 
Archimedes' Principal applies here as well. If you are on the surface and your total body weight, including the head, is such that a certain amount of the body equal to the size of the head is above water, the diver will float effortlessly with the head above water. It is not because the head is pushing the diver down; it is because of the total weight of the total body. (How hard does an iceberg work to keep that small percentage that is above the water there?) If the head is below water because of that total weight, and the diver wants it above water, the diver has three choices: 1) Drop weights so that the total body weight decreases, 2) Inflate the BCD so the total volume increases, or 3) kick hard to overcome the lack of buoyant force. It is when divers elect choice #3 that exhaustion kicks in.

The diver could instead chose not to hold the head above water, in which case a snorkel will be a great help.

But back to the original point--a properly weighted diver with an empty tank should easily float with the head above water, especially if weights are dropped and/or the BCD inflated to ANY degree.

2 out of 3 ain't bad
 
Is this a serious comment are just a troll? I'd like REI to give me a new backpack after I dump mine on a hike because it was hurting me. C'mon, are you suggesting that divers would prefer death rather than lose their weights? I was in a lost boat situation several months ago, dumped my weights and took flak from some here for doing that. Not sure why a shop needs to reimburse for that. I suspect that Bernie might say that too.

I personally know of several shops and dive operations who have a policy to replace weights free of charge if they are lost during a scuba emergency. The idea is that divers will sometimes think of the wrong priorities during an emergency, and as a result lose a life or cause injury that was easily avoided.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Once again, do you have any evidence whatsoever that people who needed to dump weights because of a safety concern are not doing so because of the fear they will be charged for them, or are you making it up?

And who isn't teaching divers to dump weights? I don't know the standards of all the 100+ certification agencies, but the one I teach for requires it to be taught.

I personally know of three deaths local to me over the past 15 years where the diver reached the surface, struggled, and subsequently sank again. That is due solely to not ditching weights. Two were OOA, and one was at the very beginning of the dive and due to the diver neglecting to open his tank valve prior to entering the water.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I personally know of three deaths local to me over the past 15 years where the diver reached the surface, struggled, and subsequently sank again. That is due solely to not ditching weights. Two were OOA, and one was at the very beginning of the dive and due to the diver neglecting to open his tank valve prior to entering the water.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I never said that there were no cases of people not ditching weights when they should have; in fact, I elsewhere said I knew it to be true and had identified specific incidents. What I said in the post you quoted was that I could not identify cases in which we KNEW that people failed to ditch weights because they did not want to have to pay for them. Here is what I wrote in the part you quoted, bold added:

"Once again, do you have any evidence whatsoever that people who needed to dump weights because of a safety concern are not doing so because of the fear they will be charged for them, or are you making it up?"
 
I was recently at a resort in Indonesia where there was a sign posted that stated the amount per kilo the diver would be charged if he failed to return weights. I cannot imagine the concern is divers packing them in their luggage for the flight home, so it would seem the policy is directed to ditched weights.
 
BoulderJohn, I have no idea why people do not dump weights. I haven't asked any dead people this question.

The fact is people wearing too much weight constituted 40% of dead divers. 90% of dead divers had weight still attached to their corpses.

Why this happens is conjecture, I was just summarizing the chapter on this subject (why divers die).

The readers who see my posts hopefully will recognize that the top 2 priorities for them scuba diving are:
1. watching their air 2. weight management.

While I can agree with your last comment, I think most experienced divers reading your posts will recognize that you are posting generally erroneous information on your way to those conclusions. The fact is that facts as to the primary causes of diving accidents are notoriously difficult to come by (since you can't interview the only person most likely to actually know), and the statistics you have been tossing out there as authoritative are not supported by DAN's data ... which is the most comprehensive data available on the subject.

What I'm reading from you amounts to basic agency-bashing, and in some cases clearly not supported by factual evidence. I taught scuba diving for NAUI for 12 years, and in the NAUI program buddy breathing was taught at the DM level ... levels below that were taught to share air using an octopus or other safe-second device. Buddy breathing was part of my YMCA OW class in 2001, but that class was based on the old LA County course of the 1970's, and while comprehensive it was in many ways old-fashioned. It also taught buddy breathing as one option, and generally only to be used if a safe second wasn't available.

As for having no idea why people do not dump weights, I'd think that someone with your obvious experience would have some ideas as to why it occurs. Generally it's because people haven't practiced the skill ... for obvious reasons ... and when faced with a moment of stress they haven't taught themselves to use the skill without conscious thought. Learning anything ... and scuba is no exception ... isn't the result of being told something in class, or of doing it once in a pool and once again during your checkout dives and then not ever practicing it again until faced with a stressful situation where that skill is needed. Learning a skill requires practicing it over and over and over until you can do it with no more conscious thought than walking or breathing. Then and only then can you count on that skill being available when you need it.

Every agency includes dumping weights in their OW curriculum. But classes don't teach you skills ... they only teach you how to learn them. Without repetition, you don't learn ... you only know. And there's a big difference between knowing something and having it available to be used in an emergency. When you're faced with a "Jesus take the wheel" moment, you aren't going to be likely to be mentally reviewing what was in Chapter 4 of your OW manual ... that reptilian part of your brain is going to take control and unless you've trained your body to respond pretty much automatically to the circumstances you're unlikely to be making good decisions or prioritizing correctly. That can be said of many different types of scuba accidents ... I've actually known people who ran themselves out of air trying desperately to get in that 3-minute safety stop knowing they were pushing their tank well past safe limits. Why? Because although they were taught that safety stops are optional, they were one of the skills that were learned through repetition during your training, and therefore the one that took precedence when stress got in the way of making good decisions.

I'm not going to bash what or how the agencies teach ... although I have some issues with how they're often taught, I think the right skills get covered in class. What we fail to do ... usually do to time or cost constraints ... it provide the repetitions needed to ingrain the skills. Nor to many instructors emphasize that diving is a situational activity, and there are no "checklists" of when you apply a given skill under all circumstances. There's a certain amount of judgment and good decision-making involved, and you don't learn those in a classroom.

Good judgment is the most important skill any diver can apply to their diving. If you analyze the data available for accidents, the conclusion you can come to is that most diving accidents didn't occur because a diver ran OOA, or didn't ditch their weights, or got separated from their buddy ... or any number of other proximate causes that will be listed. What ultimately caused the accident is that the divers failed to use good judgment at some point during the dive ... often before they ever got in the water. And that began the chain of events that ultimately led to a stressful situation ... often one that was completely within the diver's ability to correct ... that was mishandled.

OOA or failing to drop weights aren't the cause of the accident ... they're a symptom of the lack of judgment that ultimately led to it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I personally know of several shops and dive operations who have a policy to replace weights free of charge if they are lost during a scuba emergency. The idea is that divers will sometimes think of the wrong priorities during an emergency, and as a result lose a life or cause injury that was easily avoided.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It happened to me once in Florida and the shop did not charge me for the dropped weights. I was drifting with no boat in sight and weight expense was never an issue when I dumped them.

I seriously doubt that anyone's behavior is really affected by replacement cost. How would they know about the shop/boat policy anyway? I doubt that many shops would put up a sign advertising this. Announce it on the briefing perhaps? I've never heard that before. Anyone cognizant enough to figure out that dropping their weights could save their life would just dump them. (I assume). I grant you that someone could think that dumping weights could be expensive. I suspect that the real reason is lack of procedure enforcement by instructors during training. In my case I was wearing a DUI weight harness and my main concern was how I was going going to get new pockets. So I opened the pockets and released the weights individually. Two problems solved. (I should also mention that it was my buddy who asked me why I had not released my weights after watching me bob for a minute).

Most folks diving wrecks around here own their own weights. Ditto I'm sure for the PNW and California. You're talking about a much larger subset in tropical waters. Good luck getting Caribbean operations to adopt this policy.
 
John.

I don't believe for a minute that my experience is universal. Neither, however, do I believe it to be so isolated an experience as to be irrelevant to this discussion.

Neither of us knows how every instructor teaches.

I had two instructors, 2000 miles apart, one in the pool, one in the ocean. So I can share my statistically insignificant experience of 100% in a sample size of two.

I think that this skill should be taught so that the student is performing it exactly as they would in an emergency at the surface. They should go through all the motions with the intent of getting free of the weights without regard to where they end up. That's the way you build psychomotor associations. If the instructor catches them, fine, but the student shouldn't adjust the skill so that having the instructor catch them is part of the goal.

And I understand that that's how you're teaching it. And I accept that it's part of the standards to teach it that way. I believe there are many instructors who teach it that way. There are some instructors who do not.

Not all instructors follow standards. Not all instructors should even be teaching. A big part of the problems we have with scuba training today are less about the agency curriculum than they are about the certification mills that produce instructors who, six months prior to becoming instructors, weren't even diving. They know the curriculum chapter and verse, but lack the context to teach people why it matters. Furthermore, in many cases they lack the experience to even, themselves, make the right decisions in a stress moment. One of my former students recently, in a class in which he was a DM candidate, had the instructor bolt to the surface from 60 feet because her regulator started free flowing ... leaving her three DM candidates sitting down there starting at each other wondering WTF was going on. She had multiple better options ... none of which she chose. And yet she's not just an instructor, but an instructor trainer. What do you suppose she's teaching her DM and instructor candidates?

The issue with instructors isn't so much about the curriculum or the standards as it is that many of these people were rushed through the program and lack, fundamentally, the skills to teach scuba.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
This could have resulted in drowning when the appropriate response would be tell the lobster diver "learn a life lesson from this; swim up yourself and have a nice day."

No matter how skilled you are, I personally would not choose to dive with someone exhibiting that attitude ... although I understand it was the prevailing mindset among scuba divers 50 years ago ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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