NTSB opens public docket on Conception fire
- Thread starter Ken Kurtis
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I wouldn't trust those soft-side bags for lipo charging. I use one of these (cost approx $60usd):
Box:
Bag: They (barely) do the job for a smallish lipo pack (or a few cells). Each passenger would probably have to use their own. There's lots of videos of these things being tested on youtube. Also a video now from some guy who had a real lipo fire inside one of these boxes.
Even in a proper lipo box, you've still got a lot of smoke which would be a problem in an enclosed area like they used for conception's charging area.
That soft sided lunchbox is going to burn right through on the bottom. If it didn't burn through, the thing would build up pressure until the zipper popped as there doesn't appear to be any vent holes. Chances are, the lunchbox things are just more fuel to be burned and would be worse than just having the lipo sitting out.
Probably an ideal situation would be one of those giant steel "flamable materials" boxes either on the outside of the boat or with vents to the outside plubmed in. Then you put lithium batteries inside bat-box type boxes and put those boxes inside the flammable materials box. A flammable materials box with modular "batbox" type shelves inside could be designed and used for the purpose. It would also make power distribution easy since all you need to do is run power around inside that cabinet - along with appropriate GFCI/AFCI overpower circuit breakers.
Box:
Bag: They (barely) do the job for a smallish lipo pack (or a few cells). Each passenger would probably have to use their own. There's lots of videos of these things being tested on youtube. Also a video now from some guy who had a real lipo fire inside one of these boxes.
Even in a proper lipo box, you've still got a lot of smoke which would be a problem in an enclosed area like they used for conception's charging area.
That soft sided lunchbox is going to burn right through on the bottom. If it didn't burn through, the thing would build up pressure until the zipper popped as there doesn't appear to be any vent holes. Chances are, the lunchbox things are just more fuel to be burned and would be worse than just having the lipo sitting out.
Probably an ideal situation would be one of those giant steel "flamable materials" boxes either on the outside of the boat or with vents to the outside plubmed in. Then you put lithium batteries inside bat-box type boxes and put those boxes inside the flammable materials box. A flammable materials box with modular "batbox" type shelves inside could be designed and used for the purpose. It would also make power distribution easy since all you need to do is run power around inside that cabinet - along with appropriate GFCI/AFCI overpower circuit breakers.
I am by no means an expert on boat safety, and I don't believe I have chimed in on any threads related to this before, but I have paid careful attention to most of them, here and on other social media as well. I would like to make a comment comparing the trends I saw in the first threads and the trends I see in this one.
In the first threads, I was struck by the actual anger in the many posts that were defending the owners and the crews of the entire dive operation. "How dare anyone cast any aspersions whatsoever on this fine group of people? They are the salt of the Earth, the cream of the crop!" When some people questioned the safety of the layout of the bunkroom and escape hatch, there were posts that blew me away. What follows is an admitted exaggeration, but the tone I got from some of them is "Hey! This boat serves west coast divers! We are not namby-pamby wimps from the east coast (or elsewhere). We are real divers! We don't need no stinking frills or safety features!" I was appalled. Even real divers are not fireproof.
When I saw how the second escape route was a hatch a couple feet over a third bunk, I immediately knew there was no way on God's green Earth even 15 people could get out through that in a reasonable amount of time. If the first person trying it is a little overweight and less than a contortionist, no one is getting out. Heck, I'm reasonably fit and agile, but it would not be easy for me. It seemed to me, a non-boat safety expert, that those 3 bunks should have been replaced with a sturdy ladder leading to a better hatch. When someone suggested the removal of even the top bunk, people replied with, "Do you realize how much money they would lose on one of those rare trips when the boat was completely full?" Again, I was appalled. If I were the owner, that minor loss of revenue would not have crossed my mind. It seemed to me that his thought was "What's the easiest way I can meet this stupid requirement without having to spend any real money?"
Things have changed. As you see in this thread, people have stopped pulling punches regarding the owner and professional crew, as well they should.
I am still baffled by the intensity of the early loyal support of what as an outside observer I felt was indefensible. Perhaps someone with a grounding in psychology can explain it to me.
In the first threads, I was struck by the actual anger in the many posts that were defending the owners and the crews of the entire dive operation. "How dare anyone cast any aspersions whatsoever on this fine group of people? They are the salt of the Earth, the cream of the crop!" When some people questioned the safety of the layout of the bunkroom and escape hatch, there were posts that blew me away. What follows is an admitted exaggeration, but the tone I got from some of them is "Hey! This boat serves west coast divers! We are not namby-pamby wimps from the east coast (or elsewhere). We are real divers! We don't need no stinking frills or safety features!" I was appalled. Even real divers are not fireproof.
When I saw how the second escape route was a hatch a couple feet over a third bunk, I immediately knew there was no way on God's green Earth even 15 people could get out through that in a reasonable amount of time. If the first person trying it is a little overweight and less than a contortionist, no one is getting out. Heck, I'm reasonably fit and agile, but it would not be easy for me. It seemed to me, a non-boat safety expert, that those 3 bunks should have been replaced with a sturdy ladder leading to a better hatch. When someone suggested the removal of even the top bunk, people replied with, "Do you realize how much money they would lose on one of those rare trips when the boat was completely full?" Again, I was appalled. If I were the owner, that minor loss of revenue would not have crossed my mind. It seemed to me that his thought was "What's the easiest way I can meet this stupid requirement without having to spend any real money?"
Things have changed. As you see in this thread, people have stopped pulling punches regarding the owner and professional crew, as well they should.
I am still baffled by the intensity of the early loyal support of what as an outside observer I felt was indefensible. Perhaps someone with a grounding in psychology can explain it to me.
MaxE
Contributor
There was one SB poster in particular I remember. She about lost it when it was suggested that batteries/charging might be an issue. She was a local. I’m not a local.
I've never been on the boat. Probably will never do a live aboard. I do understand what regulations do to costs. Another dive boat thread talks about the lack of elevators on US dive boats. On US dive boats you do not have any danger of the elevator failing and killing you, because nobody can afford an elevator. This may cure the problem of people dying on live aboards in the US too. How many people have died of fires on live aboards in the USA in the last 50 years? Has it been a real problem? Won't be now.
Nothing has changed as far as I’m concerned, I would dive truth aquatics again with no worry. I may end up up going out with them again since we can’t go to Curaçao.
Judging from the reviews, it "fireproof enough" if your LiPO battery pack has a thermal runaway event while fast-charging on a desk, workbench, next to a wall, and so on. You have to remember that it can be very intense, but is actually short-lived: this things will block the flames and there will not be enough time for "regular" surroundings to ignite from heat transfer. You may have a charred smouldering desk, soot on the wall, and such, but not a house fire. Put in on a bed of dry kindling next to a gasoline-soaked bookshelf, OTOH...
Since Conception I have one and am charging my 18650s in it even though they're very unlikely to cause any problems: both because they're not super-fast charged like "hobbyist" LiPO packs and because I try to buy good ones and good chargers.
Cert1967
Contributor
Probably how the thirty some folks felt when they boarded the boat a while back?
I’ll bet they were counting on the crew and owner to meet or exceed all regulatory requirements. Good folks crewed the boat, good folks owed the boat, why worry?
Nothing has changed for you, but for the thirty some not so much.
You would go under the same conditions that lead to the Conception disaster? That’s bold.
Bring you power strip and plug it into one of the others? That would be brave.
You would be bold to do so and you are relatively old, so
Where does that leave you?
Don’t worry they meet or exceed all of their COI requirements, hey?
If you need the Capitan or crew - you can always wake them, right? You can find them topside, sound asleep, but a good shake should rouse them.
Oh, that would be if you can find your way from your bunk to topside? Oh boy, the route is blocked and its gettin’ pretty hot.
Well, that didn’t work out for the thirty some folks, did it?
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