now tourism is dead!

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Ugh. I fly in on the 12th. I am relying on the visa upon arrival, I have no time to get a visa before I go. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers and hope I just miss this. Though, it is the weekend, I can't imagine they would be applying this policy over the weekend, would they? Here's hoping :confused4:

Its supposed to start on the 20th so its fine. Or should be.

Also i doubt it'll be much of an issue. The rampant corruption at all levels hasnt changed since January - it usually costs 100LE to bribe your way airside bypassing all security checks at sharm airport to buy one. The price may go up a bit but i bet you can still do it.

 

[macrobubble]

But I see it is normal, as an Egyptian I am required to do so when traveling to anywhere in the world, I have to apply to the consulate in Cairo (even if I am abroad and traveling and I decide to stretch the trip a little bit I have to get back to Cairo to apply for a visa) and applying to the visa requires many weeks as well (if you try to get a visa from the German consulate today you will get an appointment by mid November and if you satisfy the paperwork requirements your visa will arrive in 15 working days which is exactly 3 weeks ... this is not just a word of a mouth, it is a personal experience) ... why do you accept that for me as an Egyptian and resent it when Egypt decides to apply the same methodology?

Please do not start a debate about tourism industry and how would that have a negative impact ... true it will have an impact but still Spain and France have the same rules and still get a very high ratio of tourists from all over the world.

So I think that the decision needs a lot of work and cooperation to function correctly, and needs lots of acceptance from people to view this as a normal procedure that they have to go through, if they think this is not a good move then I would ask them to ask their governments to give the same rights for Egyptians to get a visa upon entry at the airport in their countries.

How many million egyptian travel to europe each year for vacation and spend billions of Euro there? Oh, sorry, 90% (of the few hundred every year) want to have visas to work there and to make money - not spend it! You have the same right as an egyptian to work in Europe as europeans have to work in Egypt. Find a job and apply for a work permit. If your qualified enough, you will get one! It´s really that simple...

Egypt has set itself up as a major tourist detination for decades! They wanted tourists to come and spend money, create jobs etc. So they made it easy to enter the country. Same for Spain and France, Italy and other european contries. They do not have the same rules, as you imply. They have lots of tourists and for all those countries that send millions of tourists things are extremely easy. There is not even a border control within Europe anymore. In Europe, you just leave one country and enter another without even noticing it much. If Egypt had millions of tourists going to Europe, there would be an easy proceedure as well, be assured of that!

So the situation is incomparable in many ways.
It´s basically very simple: You want tourism from certain countries - you make travel easy for them.
You restrict travel - you won´t get much tourism.
People don´t want any hassle, inconveniences or headaches when planning a holiday trip. They want to feel wanted and welcome! Both of which they are no longer feeling in Egypt!

 

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Walls ain't good enough. BTW, do you know that another "wall" has been literally destroyed today?

Yes, I know and it´s embarrasing!
embassy attacked
This violates all civilized agreements between nations and is not tolerable. Embassy grounds are sacred in any civilized country and attacking one is the sure sign of the law breaking down. There is no excuse for such a thing. Burning police cars and using violence to promote "democracy" is pure hypocracy. These vandals don´t have the first clue about democracy and what it means. They don´t promote freedom, but hatred and they tarnish Egypts name and image in the world on a scale you obviously don´t comprehend. Whatever political, ideological or religious differences there might be - some rules need to be followed and some principles to be upheld if anarchy is not to prevail. If Egypt wants to become a respected member of the international community, the people have to understand that actions like this one will only make Egypt an international pariah.

Do you really believe, peace, freedom, social justice and democracy can be achieved through escalating violence? Do you really believe, the daily lives of the egyptian people will benefit from such actions? Do you really believe, a "new" Egypt should be build on acts like that or other acts of violence? It was the great wonder of the egyptian revolution that for the 18 days the protestors stayed peaceful and did not use violence. That caused great admiration all over the world! That was something, the egyptian people can be very proud of and it was praised everywhere. This positive image of the egyptian revolution is now being destroyed step by step.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Do you really believe, peace, freedom, social justice and democracy can be achieved through escalating violence? Do you really believe, the daily lives of the egyptian people will benefit from such actions? Do you really believe, a "new" Egypt should be build on acts like that or other acts of violence?

I will not tell you what I believe because I don't know you. And I don't "believe" I should discuss these issues with anonymous people.

Now back to the OP, the Egyptians here (Solly and I) are supporting this particular move from the government. So for all those who say it's an ignorant, moron, doesn't-know-sh!t government, please remember that the Egyptian government should work for the satisfaction of the Egyptian people. And again, the Egyptians over here are satisfied

 

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Has to be said you're the only 2 supporting the idea. The ones i work with are banging their heads into a wall and going on about the utter stupidity yet again and how its going to kill everything. The ones that can (ie the ones with multiple passports) were already looking at leaving before this. Now they're really trying hard to get out.

 

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I spoke with maybe a dozend or more egyptians about the situation over the last couple of weeks. From the pick-up driver and the boat captain to the hotel owner. I have not found one who supports the approach of the current government towards tourism. The vast majority of the people I spoke with are sure that (at best) nothing will change in the future and Egypt will be as it always was. Most have no hope that their daily life will be any better than before. Most are not even interested in what is going on in Cairo anymore. The more educated follow the news, but are shaking their heads in disbelieve. So far, nothing that has been done has improved the lifes of the "normal" people, but a lot that has been done has made it more complicated and harder. Crime is on the rise, unemployment in the tourism sector is also rising, hotels and dive centers are operating on low occupancy, the restaurants are almost empty and some have already decided to leave this business sector alltogether.
What started as a peaceful revolution for the people has changed into a fight of many factions for power and against the peoples interests. In between is a geovernment that doesn´t have a clue what to do and tries to pacify everybody with stupid, sometimes contradictory decisions.

I have come to the sad conclusion that Egypt is on a downward spiral. There is no atmosphere anymore of more freedom and more social justice, there is one of more violence and more uncertainty. And that is exactely the picture that is drawn every evening in the primetime news on european TVs. That affects not only tourism, but investments here in general and the political approach european countries will have towards Egypt. Egypt is isolating itself and the majority of its people will suffer for it.

Without the jobs and the income tourism created, the country can not feed the people. This a a multi-billion Euro industry. Millions are working directly and indirectly in this sector. There is no immediate substitute. If tourism breaks down completely, whatever nice plans some might have for the future, millions will be without jobs immediately! Does anybody think, they would then still proudly wave egpytian flags? Or is it not more likely that they would be very angry, protest on the streets and maybe worse...

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Whenever I get stuck in a diving operation in one of the resorts (be it Dahab or elsewhere), I find myself to a great extent isolated from the bigger picture. On the other hand, I always seem to have a larger view when I'm in Cairo. So I'm not surprised people in Dahab are not "impressed".

 

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..., I always seem to have a larger view when I'm in Cairo. So I'm not surprised people in Dahab are not "impressed".

Yeah, that´s probably because the people in Dahab and other resorts feel their livelihood being destroyed right now, whereas the "ideologists" and "intellectuals" in Cairo don´t give sh... about the working mans daily life. For them, the "bigger picture" is of course more important than the realities for the majority of the egyptian people. That´s the typical behaviour of the ruling elite in totalitarian states. Ideology must be preserved at all costs - fu... everyone who suffers!

 

[MikeBell]

Whenever I get stuck in a diving operation in one of the resorts (be it Dahab or elsewhere), I find myself to a great extent isolated from the bigger picture. On the other hand, I always seem to have a larger view when I'm in Cairo. So I'm not surprised people in Dahab are not "impressed".

This might sound ignorant and I apologize but what is the bigger picture? If this was a way to increase the cash taken from tourists - why not just up the rates for the Visa on arrival? I don't see the benefit for the Egyptian people through this decision. Yes, perhaps it's "payback" for what Egyptians have to go through to get a visa elsewhere but Spain and Italy are in a much different position than Egypt. My understanding, and I admit is very limited, is that Egypt relies quite heavily on tourism from these VOA-countries and complicating the matter of getting tourists in the country while in the middle of a revolution doesn't seem like a good idea. I understand the frustration of going through and getting a visa for, say, the US or perhaps Canada but the difference is, we don't rely as heavily on tourism. As a North American citizen, Europe is an easy place to travel for us. We don't need a visa for Spain or Italy and it probably contributes to more of our tourist cash flowing into those countries.

As a tourist who made a last minute decision to go to Egypt a few weeks ago, had this already been in place - I would have gone elsewhere. I don't think that is a good thing for Egyptians but perhaps you see it differently. I'm just curious why you think this benefits the country.

 

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I wouldn't call it a "wider view". Id call it a detached from reality view. Ive found found a single good working Egyptian diver or even support staff anywhere that's in favour of this idea. You might find a few of the window licking dahab forum for it but they can safely be ignore as everyone knows their ultimate goal anyway.
(FWIW im not in Dahab at the moment either).
Im failing to see how this helps anything at all. Is it going to clamp down on illegal workers? Nope. Who does it target? Independent travellers. Is there a security or other issue with independent travellers? Nope. Will it make them stay away? Yes. Will it completely kill the "last minute" bookings which make up a significant percentage of market? Yes.
So will it further reduce the already decimated tourist numbers? Yes

If its all about a money grab then up the visa price. Im all for axing the "sinai exemption" as it causes chaos anyway but for the life of me i cant see what problem this new ruling was designed to solve and CAN see first hand the normal working people it's going to directly affect.

It solves no problem at all and creates new ones.