Noob BCD question

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

I agree that the lack of cummerbunds and padding is a big advantage of a BP/W (or apparently some vest BCs).

As far as a BP/W being suitable for tech divers only, I disagree. I am a Recreational diver with no plans ever to get into tech diving. But after using a number of traditional and back-inflate BCDs, I realized I didn't want a lot of padding and bulk, and I didn't need it. Alos, the weight integration systems aren't really meant to accomodate lots of weight for cold water diving. A backplate puts more of the weight where I want it (as do the DSS weight plates).

I really like what the BP/W has done for my diving...swimming in a trim position is easier, more weight is incorporated into the plate, it packs smaller for travel and it is far more durable. I really can't think of any disadvantages. It even feels fine wearing it above water.

Cheers

 

[Laser]

In the simple realm of physics, having any inflation on the front of the bc is contrary.
It's purpose is lift ( to the horizontal diver ). If you lift something you don't put air cells under it you lift from the top.

 

[spectrum]

Would that be considered "Better" then the jacket style of BCD?
Ive been looking at the Mares Dragon BCD - Im new so I dont know what I need

You have been given a lot of objective advice from respected divers who use BP/W rigs. As they say it's about what you want for features and the diving you will do. If you want things like weight integration and pockets then a jacket is your ticket. These features can be tacked on to a plate and wing but then you start to defeat the simplicity.

My one bit of advice is to make sure you get a good fit on a jacket. I firmly believe that if more jacket divers paid as much attention to fit and configuration as plate and wing divers then we'd have a lot more happy jacket divers.

I was very interested in a plate and wing, I still am as a matter of fact. I went with a Sherwood Avid, I am very happy diving wet, or dry from trunks to 7mm. I may very well add a BP/W to my gear collection but I have no technical reason to do so.

A BP/W is particulary suited to diving double cylinders and techical diving wher you are loaded down with additional cylinders etc. As noted it can be an excellent recreational rig as well.

Here is a post I made about my BC selection. I don't mean to sway you but it enumerates a number of fearures to consider and watch for. I am equally happy after 78 dives. http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1142032&postcount=2

Pete

 

[vox]

Basicly, a bp/wing is a modular system composed of a metal plate that's bent so it's comfortable and bolts don't jab you in the back when it's assembled, a BC gas bladder that gets sandwiched between your tank and the plate, and a harness that holds the rig securely to the diver.

They work well with single tanks or doubles, and it's easy to change to a different sized wing if you switch (for example) from diving steel doubles in a drysuit to diving with a single aluminium tank in the tropics.

Harnesses can be complex with lots of adjustment points and quick releases, or a simple "hogarthian" harness that's basicly a single piece of 2" webbing with a buckle and some D-rings.

For single tank diving, some plates allow the user to run cam bands right through the plate, and others use a "single tank adaptor" (STA) that bolts to the plate through specially placed holes in the wing, and to which the cam bands hold your tank. For doubles, the tank bands bolt through the same holes the STA would use, and hold the tanks very securely in place.

Here's a picture: http://www.dktechgear.dk/catalog/images/DTD-PakE.jpg

Awesome!

Thanks!

 

[spectrum]

In the simple realm of physics, having any inflation on the front of the bc is contrary.
It's purpose is lift ( to the horizontal diver ). If you lift something you don't put air cells under it you lift from the top.

Any good jacket has an element of back inflation. When diving prone and not overweighted you will be supported by back buoyancy. Even if you are diving deep and counteracting significant suit compression the greatest lift will be at your back.

On the surface safe flotation with a jacket is a no brainer. While a wing will safely support the diver most will advise not to over inflate to avoid a face plant. If a diver wants to be high in the water in heavy seas a jacket is likely to provide more security. With experience these become lesser concerns. While there is no reason for a new diver not to use a BP/W a good, properly fit jacket can be an excellent adaptation.

Pete

 

[Walter]

In the simple realm of physics, having any inflation on the front of the bc is contrary.
It's purpose is lift ( to the horizontal diver ). If you lift something you don't put air cells under it you lift from the top.

First, when in water, air in a bladder will rise to the highest (shallowest) point, assuming no obstructions. When you are diving with a vest in a prone position, that point is along the back. Unless you are grossly over weighted and must grossly over inflate your BC to compensate, you will not have air below you.

Second, the purpose of a BC is not to lift, but to achieve neutral buoyancy underwater and positive buoyancy on the surface. It should never be used to lift.

Finally, when you are actually lifting an object underwater, where you place air to lift it will depend on the structure of the object to be lifted and the tools available to make the lift. The most efficient lift actually takes place if all the air can be placed under the object. When this can be achieved (unfortunately, it's rare), the object is not left dangling underwater after the lift (now requiring it to be lifted out of the water with a different method), but is actually floating out of the water supported by the air container.

 

[MSilvia]

While a wing will safely support the diver most will advise not to over inflate to avoid a face plant.

It's worth noting that "most" will only say that after someone argues that a wing will pitch you forward at the surface. That has not been my experience, and no one I know who uses one (about 3/4 of the folks I dive with) has mentioned any problem like that. I think the over-inflation caution is the result of 'reaching' for an explaination for a problem few have experienced. Personally, I suspect it's the result of things like adding weight pockets, not truely being comfortable in a horizontal position, not fitting the harness correctly, using oversized wings, or having poor technique. I've never seen it happen, even with folks trying a BP out for the first time.

I regularly surface swim (or rest) on my back in bp/wing quite comfortably, with no struggle. I'm not sure how that would be possible in something that tends to make people face-plant.

That said, a wing isn't a life jacket, and isn't intended to work as one.

 

[Walter]

I use a vest, I prefer mine, but I have used a BP/wing and used correctly, they will not force you face down. The BP/wing is an excellent piece of equipment. A vest is not approved as a PFD either.

 

[guitar_lord]

Well that's some "food for thought" thanks everyone.
I went to my LDS and tried on both the backplate with w BC and the Dragon vest.
(and I bought my first wetsuit HORAY!)

I dont know why but I feel more comfortable in the jacket style - but that's all Ive ever used before....
I think Im going to buy the jacket and then get the tech diving BC down the road.

My dive instructor has both - and she advised me that she uses both for different applications, so I think I might just bite the bullet and spend more $$$ lol

Thanks a lot everyone!

 

[H2Andy]

sounds good, Brian!

buying gear is always awesome

(some say it's the best part of diving)