Non GUE DIR

[darkpup]

*I will go on record again. Joe, Delia and Andrew are all excellent instructors*.

and

Some of them have even larger character flaws that should predispose them from teaching in my opinion.

I don't get it. By your words, we go from 3 "excellent" instructors. Not mediocre, not good, not just ok, but "excellent". Not more than 2 sentences later we see that at least 2 of the 3 (i.e. "Some of them" not just one of them) have such big character flaws they shouldn't be instructors per the same opinion that said they were excellent. Go figure.

Also...

It was severely detracting from my fun, which I'm very focused on.

From your previous signature and comments on the Quest list, I thought fun didn't get it done? This is a big change for the better, IMO.

~ Jason

Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with Disneyland, Starbucks, Chipotle, 5thd-x, GUE, Halcyon, Dive-Extras, Sun Splash (miniature golf tonight), and Bobo's Thia Restaurant.

 

[seavonj]

and



I don't get it. By your words, we go from 3 "excellent" instructors. Not mediocre, not good, not just ok, but "excellent". Not more than 2 sentences later we see that at least 2 of the 3 (i.e. "Some of them" not just one of them) have such big character flaws they shouldn't be instructors per the same opinion that said they were excellent. Go figure.

Also...



From your previous signature and comments on the Quest list, I thought fun didn't get it done? This is a big change for the better, IMO.

~ Jason

Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with Disneyland, Starbucks, Chipotle, 5thd-x, GUE, Halcyon, Dive-Extras, Sun Splash (miniature golf tonight), and Bobo's Thia Restaurant.

Josh must have hooked Mark up with some meds.

Ahhhh Relaxation!! Veeeerrrryyy NnnnIIIccceee MMMaaaannnn!!!! :sleeping_

 

[Kevrumbo]

So,

How do folks feel about non GUE trained DIR divers? It looks like at least NAUI is getting on the bandwagon. Will the GUE Tech divers be able to do dives with the NAUI Tech divers? Will they want to? Do we think that as time goes on, the systems (from agency to agency) will slowly morph away from each other? It seems that at least one NAUI instructor has made modifications to some of the DIR systems.

Let's try to keep this a bit on topic and FLAME FREE.

If you post to this thread and have ANY affiliation with any training agency or instructors, please state it.

Thanks,

Mark

Okay here we go. . . just now sent to me from my TDI Instructor in Hawaii:

Advanced Nitrox and Decompression Procedures

Instructor: Joakim C Hjelm (Jo)
Office: Hickam AFB. Pool #1
Email: jo@islanddivershawaii.com
Phone: 224-0309 / 423-8222

Office Hours: By appointment.
Text: A diver’s guide to Advanced Nitrox Diving. The Full Spectrum of Nitrox Mixtures by J. Odom and International Training Inc. 2001 Rev 2

A diver’s guide to Decompression Procedures. Theory, Equipment and Procedures by J. Odom and International Training Inc. 2000 Rev 1b

Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski and Global Underwater Explorers 2000 (not included in class cost)

Required handouts(CD):

· Hogarth Grows Up; The evolution of DIR diving.

· The New Mysterious Malady; current thoughts on hyperoxic seizures

· The impacts of smoking on diving

· DIR details; the holistic system from mask to fins

· Understanding trim and buoyancy

· Cardiovascular conditioning and diving safety

· The oxygen window

· Patent Foramen Ovale; background and impact on divers

· The balanced rig

· The varying permeability model; a decompression razor

· Decompression experimentation

· The changing landscape of decompression

· WKPP assorted articles

Course Structure and Content:

Students will meet once weekly (Wednesdays usually) to discuss diving theory, logistics, dive planning or do training dives. Students will do presentations and quiz/exams to show mastery of diving theory. Open water dives will be planned after consultation with students with regard to scheduling and after adequate skill has been shown in confined water (pool) or similar environment. Dives will vary in complexity depending on environmental conditions and student progress. Diver training is designed to increase diver proficiency through proper buoyancy control, trim, propulsion and teamwork.

Prerequisites:
· Must be 18 years of age
· Complete student file including medical statement, release forms, and dive history
· Rescue diver qualification
· Minimum of 100 Open water dives with instructor discretion.
· Must be a Non smoker
· Must be able to swim at least 25 yards on breath hold and 300 yards free swim in 13 minutes.
· Prior to diving, the use of prescription drugs must be approved by physician and instructor.
· Student must log at least 30 minutes of exercise three times a week to be allowed to participate in any technical dive training or charters. This exercise program must be maintained for 2 weeks prior to any event to be qualified.
· Participate in at least 1 practice dive per month.
· Refrain from alcohol 2 days prior to an event.

Lecture outline:

History
Discovery of oxygen
Early experimental dives
Military applications
Scientific applications
Early recreational applications
Historical overview of training agencies
Physics
Pressure review
Implications of pressure on the nature of gasses
Equations relevant for the planning, mixing and us of enriched air, trimix, oxygen
Physiology
Hypoxia
Oxygen toxicity
CNS
Pulmonary toxicity
Tracking, multilevel, multi-dive and multi-day exposures
Inert gas narcosis
Inert gas absorption and elimination
Carbon dioxide toxicity
Carbon monoxide toxicity
Hyperthermia
Hypothermia
Decompression illness
Accelerated decompression
Decompression practices on air, enriched air, trimix and oxygen
Generic tables, computers and custom tables
Advantages over deep air
Equipment considerations
Singles
Doubles
Stage bottles
BC/harness
Regulators, depth gauges, pressure gauges and hose routing
Manifolds
Lift bags and reels
Computers and bottom timers
Exposure suit appropriate for the environment
Dive planning
Operational planning
Support
Teams
Team planning
Gas matching
Oxygen limits
Nitrogen limits
Emergency procedures
Omitted decompression procedures
Oxygen toxicity
Decompression illness
Miscellaneous issues including limited deco gas, out of air, buddy separation, etc.
Procedures
Bottom, and deco gas
Normal operations
Procedures for failure, loss or inadequate supply
Gas mixing
Analyzing and labeling supplies
Descent
Down line / wall vs free ascent
Recognizing narcosis
Breathing
Organizing equipment
Bc problems
Ascent
Rate of ascent
Trim and compensation
Support
Navigation
Natural, non-penetration
Line following

Practical Dive skills:

Dive skills
Mix, analyze and label all gas mixtures
Pre-dive planning to include:
§ Course limits

§ Supply limits

§ Personal limits

§ Oxygen and nitrogen limits

o Navigation

o Management of a no mask scenario

o Lift bag deployment and use

o At least 10 gas sharing drills

o Use of various propulsion techniques

o Dive partner rescue skills, including panicked, unconscious and convulsing diver

o Use of touch contact for limited or zero visibility situations

o Use of line following techniques for limited visibility experiences

o Emergency air management, including valve manipulation where applicable

o Decompression bottle management

Performance objectives:

Demonstrate proficiency in safe diving procedures, including pre-dive preparations, in-water activity and post dive assessment
Comfortably swim for at least 50’ without a mask
Demonstrate the ability to deploy a lift bag
Efficiently and comfortably demonstrate how to donate gas to an out of gas diver in multiple gas sharing episodes
Be able to comfortably demonstrate at least one propulsion technique appropriate for environment
Demonstrate awareness of team member location and a concern for safety, responding quickly to visual cues and partner needs
Demonstrate reasonable proficiency with a single decompression bottle
Demonstrate a safe and responsible demeanor throughout all training
Passing all quizzes and exams

Required gear:

All students signed up for advanced nitrox and decompression procedures are responsible to supply the following;

Mask
Fins and booties
Wetsuit (7mm preferred with hood)
1 primary bottom timer/depth gauge
1 backup bottom timer/depth gauge
compass
wet notes/slate
surface marker with spool/reel
cutting device
back plate with harness
2 DIN first stages (configuration will be discussed in class) including one Submersible Pressure Gauge, one low pressure inflator hose, one 7’ primary hose, and necklace backup.
1 DIN first stage for deco bottle
canister style primary light or similar.
backup light

Provided gear include:
double aluminum 80cu.ft cylinders with isolator manifold

Renting equipment is discouraged and will only be available after consultation with me.

Entry level trimix or advanced trimix are required to personally supply ALL above gear.

Cost for student:

Students are required to pay for the class at the first academic session. Boat charters and gas fills needs to be paid as appropriate. Books and certification cards are included in cost of class. Due to the nature of these classes and the significant costs accrued by the instructor and dive center no discounts will be given.

Class fees are as following;

advanced nitrox / decompression procedures $900
entry level trimix $1000
advanced trimix $1500

Academic Honesty:

Cheating will not be a problem in this class. All students will master all skills and theory by practical use.

Exams/quizzes:

There will be quizzes on each academic meeting to follow student progress. Each course will have a comprehensive final.

Grading:

All exams/quizzes must be mastered for passing.

Instructor’s credentials:

Bachelor degree in Marine Biology from HPU

Manager Island Divers Hawaii

TDI advanced nitrox instructor #9080

TDI decompression procedures instructor #9080

TDI entry level trimix instructor #9080

TDI advanced trimix instructor #9080

TDI gas blender instructor #9080

TDI advanced gas blender instructor #9080

PADI Master Scuba Diver Instructor #181568

PADI drift diver instructor #181568

PADI deep diver instructor #181568

PADI night diver instructor #181568

PADI nitrox instructor #181568

PADI wreck instructor #181568

PADI peak performance buoyancy instructor #181568

1100 Logged dives in Hawaiian waters

Over 300 students certified for diving

 

[mweitz]

Just to clarify, in class they are good instructors. Out of class they are simply a mess.

My point with the fun doesn't get it done is that THEIR fun isn't relevant. They need to get down to business. I plunked down my hard earned cash, and instead of them taking my business seriously they are out playing. Using my money for their fun while I'm getting screwed is utter BS.

Believe me, I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Some folks have also commented to me that these types of practices are common within this industry. I would like to point out that you need to seek people out that have motivations other then strictly money when looking for training / mentors. The fact of the matter is there is power in numbers. People that are serious about the sport encourage it and will make personal sacrifices to promote it. If you want shops that fill mix, want to charter boats, or want local shops to carry the gear ou use, you need enough people to make the costs reasonable, and you need safe divers to dive with. It is in everyones best interest to have more, safer divers.

Mark

and



I don't get it. By your words, we go from 3 "excellent" instructors. Not mediocre, not good, not just ok, but "excellent". Not more than 2 sentences later we see that at least 2 of the 3 (i.e. "Some of them" not just one of them) have such big character flaws they shouldn't be instructors per the same opinion that said they were excellent. Go figure.

Also...



From your previous signature and comments on the Quest list, I thought fun didn't get it done? This is a big change for the better, IMO.

~ Jason

Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with Disneyland, Starbucks, Chipotle, 5thd-x, GUE, Halcyon, Dive-Extras, Sun Splash (miniature golf tonight), and Bobo's Thia Restaurant.

 

[StSomewhere]

Speaking of Non GUE DIR do we have any graduates yet from the DIR-E course?

Well, technically (and I realize there are some here who will have a field day with this), no one "graduates" from Essentials because its a workshop, not a test.

It was all about learning a new system from an instructor and getting a chance to try those in-water skills. I had a chance to compare them with where they ought to be for a good diver, and made some (small) improvements. While there was a "what to work on next/where to go from here" evaluation at the end, there wasn't a pass/fail grade or card or embossed wall certificate or anything like that.

Most likely some divers with a revised opinion of their diving proficiency ...

Boy THAT'S an understatement, and its not that I had a very high opinion of my skills to begin with! :11: OMG, if seeing yourself diving on video doesn't humble you then nothing will. :11: :11: :11: At least now I know where to start.

My busy schedule has managed to subside just a bit (but fergawdzsakes no one tell my boss!)... Later today or tomorrow I'll try to post a much more detailed report of my Essentials workshop for anyone that's interested.

 

[onfloat]

Well, I just sat here and re-read this entire thread. And after taking a class through the 5thD-X team in concert with Island Divers here on Oahu. I posted a report in the DIR section I felt the class held to the DIR tenets and standards. The OP (mwietz) comes on and says it has nothing to do with DIR and shortly there after my thread is moved to the technical diving section with out a shadow subject left in the DIR section to indicate that it has been moved. So apparently if it's not GUE it's not DIR (only on this board) I still had to be a DIR-F graduate to take the class.

disclaimers:
I have bought two videos and a couple of hoses from 5thD-X.
Took DIR-F from one of AG's students
And I gave Joe and CALI68 a ride from the airport and while they were here on the island.

 

[jonnythan]

Don't be so quick, onfloat. The "existence" and recognition of non-GUE DIR is obviously a hot topic and we're trying our best to work through it. This is not a clearly defined area and we're having pains growing through it just as the community at large is.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[onfloat]

quick at what?

 

[jonnythan]

"So apparently if it's not GUE it's not DIR (only on this board)"

That's not an official position as far as I know. We're trying to figure it out just like everyone else

 

[PaulChristenson]

http://www.gue.com/Equipment/Evolution/index.html

GUE DIVING

To a careful reader, a casual review of diving history will reveal a movement toward greater standardization. DIR's place in history is assured given its role in introducing a new paradigm to the diving public, one where standardization provides divers with the key to efficiency, safety, enjoyment and success. Though there is still variation among divers, in time, the desire for proficiency will force them to migrate toward a known paradigm that through its insistence on standardization ensures phenomenal success in both extreme diving projects and recreational venues. For this reason, the trajectory that the history of diving will follow will speak volumes to the effects of the DIR movement.

However, as with all great movements, comes inevitable corruption and fragmentation. Today, DIR has spread to every corner of the globe, with self-appointed DIR groups emerging in dozens of different countries. Given their physical separation, their lack of centralized direction, their own specific agendas, beliefs, power struggles and constraints, these satellite groups cannot help but to promote a version of DIR that is uniquely their own. This version of"DIR" will likely have little resemblance to the original. This will be the case, however well-intentioned, however devoted to the founding principles of DIR, these satellites may be.

The unavoidable division of DIR is the result of many factors, ranging from breakdowns in channels of communication, to differing interpretations, to personal agendas, to private experiences, to power plays, to simple disagreements among proponents. As individuals and groups appropriate DIR they will often make choices very different from those that I and other founders of D IR would have made. It is now necessary for us to recognize that DIR will be repurposed by those it has influenced in ways that serve their own interests. Nonetheless, in the end, I believe that these systems that appropriate DIR can only benefit the future of the diving industry. Even so, I believe that to enhance the safety, fun and efficiency we sought to ensure when we first started to build DIR, it is necessary for us to ensure greater standardization across a series of domains.

From the outset I believed that a diver's training, his/her equipment, his/her configuration, his/her knowledge and skill set should all contribute to greater safety and enjoyment in the water. For this reason, I founded GUE. The DIR system is at the core of GUE training. This is not surprising, given the extent to which my efforts helped to shape both DIR and GUE. However, with the passage of time, GUE has shaped its own identity, one that is not identical to that of DIR. And though being DIRis a necessary condition of being a GUE diver, it is not a sufficient condition; it is not enough. There is more to being a GUE diver than being DIR, among other things, it entails a standardized measure of competence (training) and commitment to both civility and non-smoking, aspects to which DIR in-itself does not speak. Over time, GUE Vice-President and long-time DIR supporter Dr. Panos Alexakos and I came to see that there was really no way to reign in the particular interpretations of the ever-growing numbers of DIR advocates and that it would be a waste of resources and energy to struggle with them over the correct interpretation of DIR. With this in mind, we have struck out on a new road, a distinctly GUE road that looks fondly upon DIR as the foundation that can empower the organization toward a new and unique future.