No Technical Training for Me.

[Mike Edmonston]

Don't let that deter you. Just find an instructor who knows what he's doing. That one doesn't...a good hint was the 80% deco gas.

OK,

I'm sorry if this offends somebody but it needs to be said. DO NOT CRITICIZE other instructors if you have NO IDEA what you are talking about!:no

80% deco gas is VERY COMMON for a number of reasons. It increases your margin of safety for MOD for new divers with buoyancy issues (31 FSW). It also is the preferred method of partial pressure filling a 40cf tank to 2100psi and topping off with air in order to get 3000 psi out of your tank. He had multiple students, He needed the air. In order to get 3000 psi of 100% o2, he would need to boost with a Haskel. If you have NO IDEA what I am talking about, then you shouldn't criticize! Having 80% over 100% does not impact your deco schedule as much as you believe, and as I mentioned earlier, it is safer due to increased MOD, and a lower po2 at 10 to 20 ft.

Maybe the diver had all the experience and got FUBAR'ed wih new gear. Just because you are neutral in 8 ft of water, doesn't mean you will have proper buyoncy control at depth (with neopreme and gas compression etc...). He should have learned TO USE HIS EQUIPMENT in shallower conditions, but extended range diving is done at depth. it's not a cutesy course that you take after Advanced Open Water!

If the student had enough air to come up from depth, then he had enough lift in his wing PERIOD! the fact that he got inverted, has more to do with his task loading abilities, then the instructor's competence. I've been there, done that and had an ADVANCED OW student FREAK OUT in 8 ft of water while trying to deploy a SMB, and bolt to the surface. she is a very competent diver, but the task loading was overbearing for her at the time. she finally got it worked out and I dive with her regularely.

This is why we call it LEARNING! if everyone did it perfectly, it would be called KNOWING!!

And please if you are clueless about tech diving, or know only what your broher's sister's friend's mother's dog's squishy toy told you, DO NOT COMMENT ON IT!

We have enough missinformation out here allready.:shakehead

Rant complete

Cheers

Mike

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

80% deco gas is VERY COMMON for a number of reasons. It increases your margin of safety for MOD for new divers with buoyancy issues (31 FSW).

Is it common practice in Florida for new divers with buoyancy issues to be taking classes that require the use of a decompression gas?

Shouldn't they be deferred from that level of diving until they have their basic skills worked out?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dbulmer]

An AOW student freaking out and bolting at 8 foot because of DSMB deployment? I cannot comment on technical diving but you wouldn't be allowed on a UK boat if that was known. It's one thing to mess up the deployment it's quite another to freak out and bolt because of it - is there something else you are not telling us? How can you view someone as competent for bolting - isn't the hallmark of tech diving that all problems need to be resolved in the water?

And another thing are you not supposed to be comfy with tech gear before you turn up for training ie good familiarity with gear and above average buoyancy control? I always thought tech divers were supposed to have excellent buoyancy control before they got to the point where it could be worked on further because of the demands of the deco they would be doing.

I admit to be clueless about tech stuff but I didn't realise how clueless I was till now.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

isn't the hallmark of tech diving that all problems need to be resolved in the water?

Yes ...

And another thing are you not supposed to be comfy with tech gear before you turn up for training ie good familiarity with gear and above average buoyancy control?

Yes ...

I always thought tech divers were supposed to have excellent buoyancy control before they got to the point where it could be worked on further because of the demands of the deco they would be doing.

Definitely ... one of the requirements is that you should be able to resolve problems while doing a decompression stop without changing your position in the water by more than two feet.

I admit to be clueless about tech stuff but I didn't realise how clueless I was till now.

Sounds like you've got all the clues to me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Soggy]

I just wrote a long drawn out post and then deleted it because I can sum this up in one phrase...

If you are certifying divers to do decompression dives that cannot hold a stop, you should have your instructor card revoked.

My knowledge of technical diving is just fine...

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Is it common practice in Florida for new divers with buoyancy issues to be taking classes that require the use of a decompression gas?

Shouldn't they be deferred from that level of diving until they have their basic skills worked out?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yes, it is common to use 80% as a deco gas. And yes they should have impecable buoyancy skills. (in a perfect world).

The diver should have had his rig trimmed out. I agree with you 100%. Like I said earlier, extended range is a very advanced class. You already did DECO, Trimix, and Technical trimix before you get to extended range. Therefore this diver thought of himself as competent enough to try his new rig before working out the bugs. He was wrong.

Cheers.

Mike

 

[Mike Edmonston]

I just wrote a long drawn out post and then deleted it because I can sum this up in one phrase...

If you are certifying divers to do decompression dives that cannot hold a stop, you should have your instructor card revoked.

You are 100% right. I hink some instructors are in it for the money and should NOT be teaching anything beyond snorkling.

My original post was in response to the ( 80% deco gas, he must be a clueless instructor... ) comment, and the missinformation that is spread. It seems like everyone's first instinct in responding is to blame the instructors. Do you do everything right the first time every time? maybe you should teach everyone's classes then.

It's useless for me to argue with you. you have a "blame the instructors mindset" and won't be happy until everyone agrees with you.

in a nutshell:

I use 80% in my classes, I will not allow a student to try out any new gear on a deep dive, and I will NOT PASS YOU if you can't hold perfect neutral buoyancy for a minimum of 5 minutes with no hands or feet movement.

If that's too hard, then get out of my class.. I'm not in it for the money.

Cheers.

Mike

 

[Mike Edmonston]

An AOW student freaking out and bolting at 8 foot because of DSMB deployment? I cannot comment on technical diving but you wouldn't be allowed on a UK boat if that was known. It's one thing to mess up the deployment it's quite another to freak out and bolt because of it - is there something else you are not telling us? How can you view someone as competent for bolting - isn't the hallmark of tech diving that all problems need to be resolved in the water?

And another thing are you not supposed to be comfy with tech gear before you turn up for training ie good familiarity with gear and above average buoyancy control? I always thought tech divers were supposed to have excellent buoyancy control before they got to the point where it could be worked on further because of the demands of the deco they would be doing.

I admit to be clueless about tech stuff but I didn't realise how clueless I was till now.

She is a dive student, not a TECH diver of any sort, and we had done the drills on land in proper line deployment. She got taskloaded and lost it. It happens during classes, that is why I don't teach SMB's at depth. It seems people have a problem removing the regulator, exhaling into the SMB then replacing the reg. she lost her focus and bolted.

I took her to shore, practiced the skill again with her on land, then we tried it again at 8 ft. She did it with no problems. people don't just "get it" immediately.

I guess alot of people won't be diving off your UK boats, because their not perfect.

Cheers.

Mike

 

[Soggy]

Yes, it is common to use 80% as a deco gas. And yes they should have impecable buoyancy skills. (in a perfect world).

So, your argument about buoyancy skills and 80% being safer is bunk.

I agree with you 100%.

I think you're only 80% sure

 

[daniel f aleman]

For some it's always either or... stupid. Since 80% is used by hundreds of divers without problems one can concluded that is not going to F ***** G kill anyone.