No Technical Training for Me.

[Soggy]

Good god man, give it a rest!

I'm only harping on it because you apparently can't get it through your skull that a student with buoyancy problems should not be breathing mixes with high O2 contents and doing dives that require decompression. Those problems need to be resolved before they get to that point. This is not rocket science.

Fine you're right about everything, your way is the only way, everyone else is an incompetent instuctor.

If an instructor puts a student with buoyancy problems on a decompression dive, yes, they are incompetent. If they have not evaluated whether or not the student has buoyancy problems before putting them in that situation, they are incompetent.

That seems incredibly obvious to me and I thought to most of the rest of the world, too. It frustrates me to no end because it is knowingly endangering them.

Am I really the only person that feels this way?!

 

[H2Andy]

Good god man, give it a rest!

well, you did post a long post just now expounding your point of view

Soggy was responding. what did you expect him to do?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

I'm only harping on it because you apparently can't get it through your skull that a student with buoyancy problems should not be breathing mixes with high O2 contents and doing dives that require decompression. Those problems need to be resolved before they get to that point. This is not rocket science.



If an instructor puts a student with buoyancy problems on a decompression dive, yes, they are incompetent. If they have not evaluated whether or not the student has buoyancy problems before putting them in that situation, they are incompetent.

That seems incredibly obvious to me and I thought to most of the rest of the world, too. It frustrates me to no end because it is knowingly endangering them.

Am I really the only person that feels this way?!

My skull is not that thick actually (too much time in the water).

I DO NOT, and WILL NOT put a student in a deep water dive if they have inherent buoyancy problems. I will not do an extended range course with a student that can't hold buoyancy, until they have those issues resolved at shallower depths. I have my reasons for using 80% and they were outlined in an earlier post. Please do not read it as "I USE 80% ONLY BECAUSE THESE BUOYANCY CHALLENGED STUDENTS CAN'T HOLD A DECO STOP".

If the instructor in the original post put a student in jeopardy by not following standards, and ignoring protocol, than I will be ahead of you in getting this guy yanked from teaching.

Like I said earlier, maybe the waves do or don't affect your depth/pressure. I can feel the change in my ears on a 3m stop, therefore I choose to use 80%.

The reason that they would need a 3 gas computer:

1. the back gas
2. the gas in their ponies 80%
3. the gas on the anchor line if I used 100% as you suggest.

No you do not need to use a computer. But most people/students do. and yes I do teach the tables.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Rick Murchison]

I'll have to pay closer attention the next time I'm out in sloppy weather, but my recollection is that swells have little effect of measured depth/pressure at safety stop depths, while waves, particuarly very short period sharp fronted ones, do.

OTOH, if I'm deeper and stationary with respect to the bottom, it's just the opposite --- waves don't have any effect and swells do.


By swell I mean the nice smooth sinusoidal shaped patterns that come from far away storms. By waves I mean the shorter period things are are in response to the last few minutes or hours of wind. Neither waves nor swells are the same as the surf or shorebreak that occurs when waves and swells hit shallower water.

That's a pretty accurate description of my experience and perception also. Got to get wet soon to test this stuff... get wet... get wet... get wet...
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

well, you did post a long post just now expounding your point of view

Soggy was responding. what did you expect him to do?

I thought his instructions were quit clear. Soggy is supposed to stop bashing instructors.

 

[wedivebc]

I'm only harping on it because you apparently can't get it through your skull that a student with buoyancy problems should not be breathing mixes with high O2 contents and doing dives that require decompression. Those problems need to be resolved before they get to that point. This is not rocket science.



If an instructor puts a student with buoyancy problems on a decompression dive, yes, they are incompetent. If they have not evaluated whether or not the student has buoyancy problems before putting them in that situation, they are incompetent.

That seems incredibly obvious to me and I thought to most of the rest of the world, too. It frustrates me to no end because it is knowingly endangering them.

Am I really the only person that feels this way?!

I would have been 100% behind you if you hadn't of written the instructor off for the 80% mix back around post#8. There was just so many things this instructor did wrong, including taking divers who can't handle basic skills on a deco dive that the gas selection pales by comparison.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

That's a pretty accurate description of my experience and perception also. Got to get wet soon to test this stuff... get wet... get wet... get wet...
Rick

You now have me pretty curious. I'm actually going to run a couple tests next weekend off Palm Beach. (Supposed to be Windy )

I will tie off to the wreck and deploy my line until I am at 3m. then I will stay there for 5 minutes and record the depth changes if any.

Test#2 will be hanging off a lift bag at 3m in a drift for 5 minutes.

We'll see if any of it changes, at least it's a reason to get wet

Cheers

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

Enough about 80%

Let me tell a good technical traiing story.


Our first tech instructor was a real gem. He met us in Florida but showed up not feeling well so he didn't dive. My wife and I did the dives while he stayed on the dock.

It's not as bad as it sounds though. We had dived with him once before and we didn't really feel comfortable taking him on a deep dive anyway.

My wife, who's reading this over my shoulder, thought I should add that as narced as she was, she doesn't think that I could have taken care of both of them. Well, that's what 170 on air will get you. Some people really do get pretty narced.

There's more good stuff to the story if any one wants to hear it but for now, I'll skip to the end....

I went ahead and did the written test and sent the instructor my answers and got my official super duper tech diver card. My wife didn't bother and decided that she wanted to do the class again with someone else. This time we lucked into a little better instructor. The secong guy, while a much better instructor (he got in the water and everything) was horrible about doing paper work. He'll run right out and teach a class but it could take him years to do the paper work and get you certified. One day, I was on the phone with the agency trying to find out if they had recieved the paper work that the he swore he had sent in months earlier and I found out that the first instructor had already certified her. Believe it or not they never seemed very curious about the fact that two different instructors had certified her for the same class inside of a few months. So...my wife got her very first technical diving certification by doing about half the required dives (he went home early because we're such good divers and he had so much confidence in us) without the instructor ever getting in the water and without ever taking the written test.

I had already been a recreational diving instructor for a while and already knew what I thought of those agencies. During this period of time, I was well into forming my opinions of the technical diving agencies.

DisclaimerThough this story is true, I put it here for entertainment purposes only.