No solo diving in overhead environment

[MXGratefulDiver]

It was to get some understanding of why solo diving is not recommended in an overhead environment.

As a matter of interest, how many of you solo dive in an overhead environment.

It's a false assumption that solo diving is not recommended in an overhead environment. In some circumstances, solo is the safest way to do the dive. The people doing it, however, are highly skilled, highly trained, and have SIGNIFICANTLY less attitude than I read in most of your posts. They've been tested under fire, and know exactly where their limits lie. They wouldn't ever consider some of the risks you claim to be taking ... despite being significantly more experienced and skilled than you are. And, for the most part, these people would view your position to be risky and stupid.

If your profile is accurate, I've got more solo dives than you have dives ... even if you're at the high end of the indicated range. And although I've solo dived in an overhead environment, I've done so only after getting the training, knowledge and experience to prepare for the risks. I also know enough to recognize a building situation that would exceed my limits and turn the dive before it happened. In many ways, I'm far more conservative on those "big" solo dives than I am when I'm diving a simple recreational dive with a trusted dive buddy.

Based on your posts I think you're either a troll or somebody who's on a path to a very bad situation. Either way, good luck ... I don't think I'd ever want to dive with you, as I view people with your attitude way more dangerous than either sharks or overhead environments ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Foxfish]

It's a false assumption that solo diving is not recommended in an overhead environment. In some circumstances, solo is the safest way to do the dive. The people doing it, however, are highly skilled, highly trained, and have SIGNIFICANTLY less attitude than I read in most of your posts. They've been tested under fire, and know exactly where their limits lie. They wouldn't ever consider some of the risks you claim to be taking ... despite being significantly more experienced and skilled than you are. And, for the most part, these people would view your position to be risky and stupid.... Bob (Grateful Diver)

It's okay people. Bob and I go back a little way. He has some entrenched personal views about how a dive should be done and gets a little riled that not everyone sees things the same way.

Do you dive solo in an overhead environment?
Have you done a solo diving course?
If so, which one?

 

[spoolin01]

I read a book called Solo Diving, then left it on the plane since it seemed entirely w/o useful or interesting content (barely behind my OW classroom instruction in that respect, BTW). I dive solo w/some regularity in overhead environments. They all share a few key characteristics, almost w/o exception:

- no side chambers or tubes
- some ambient light indicating the entrance.
- no spot under the overhead is more than about a 30 second (usually less) swim from the surface.

To me those are key distinctions, esp. #2&3.

I think the term "overhead" is typical tired SB BS, more obfuscatory and FUD-inducing than meaningful.

If you think there are dangerous aspects to scuba diving and want to have a thoughtful discussion, describe them for what they are, in a way that clarifies what your concern is. Parameters matter when discussing aspects of risk to what are otherwise quite mundane activities.

Otherwise it's a typical SB troll thread.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've been diving these swim throughs and caverns for about the past ten years both as a freediver and scuba diver. I regularly enter these caverns with a buddy while scuba diving. I've never heard of any divers having visibility problems and have rarely experienced this myself.

Check out this thread.

I'll give you a quick summary.

In 2012, a father was taking his two teenage children on a tour of Florida caverns. They decide to try Twin Cave's cavern area in Marianna. The daughter went in first, all by herself. Luckily there was a couple in the cavern decompressing. As soon as they saw her come in with her poor kicking technique, they dived down to where their line was and got their hands on it before visibility went to zero. They worked their way out on the line and blundered into the brother who had entered after her. They pulled him out. He was in sheer terror. The father wanted to go in and look for the daughter, but they wisely stopped him and instead called a man named Edd Sorenson, the owner of the local dive shop. Edd got there as soon as he could and went into the cavern to look for her. He found her breathing from the air in an air pocket at the top of the cave and brought her out alive.

To the best of the diving world's knowledge, there have been 8 people in the history of diving who have gotten lost in caves and caverns and been successfully rescued. Edd had a pretty good year in 2012--that girl was one of the 4 he rescued personally. (Yes, those 4 are part of the world's total of 8.)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's okay people. Bob and I go back a little way. He has some entrenched personal views about how a dive should be done and gets a little riled that not everyone sees things the same way.

Do you dive solo in an overhead environment?
Have you done a solo diving course?
If so, which one?

I get a little riled because I've seen people with certain attitudes either get themselves or someone else killed ... I lost a friend because of him listening and following someone with an attitude not much different than yours.

To answer your question ... I've done some staged deco dives solo, most recently a dive in the Great Lakes to 193 feet. I did that dive with independent doubles (sidemount), 240 cubic feet of back gas, and deco bottles of EAN50 and Oxygen.

I've not done a solo diving course. By the time one was offered I was already well beyond learning anything it would teach me. I did read the book to verify that was the case. I do, on the other hand, have significant overhead training, including three trimix courses, wreck penetration and cave training. The things you would learn in a solo class are all taught in those courses ... in significantly more detail. Furthermore, the nature of that type of training tests your ability to handle emergencies ... in particular, it tests your ability to task-load. The instructor throws failure after failure at you ... and as soon as you handle the failure, he'll hit you with another one. The purpose is to help you find your breaking point ... and to teach you how to manage multiple failures with a calm demeanor. If you've never gone through that, you have no way of knowing how you'll react if you should ever find yourself in that situation.

By the time I took up solo diving, I had nearly 2000 dives under my weightbelt ... roughly 200 of them dives in either a physical or virtual overhead. By then I had not only a pretty good knowledge of my limitations, but a healthy respect for the water and what it can do to you ... based on making plenty of mistakes and learning from them. A lot of those were mistakes I probably wouldn't have survived without the help of a good dive buddy. They taught me how to recognize and avoid most of the problems that can get divers in trouble. Without that experience, I don't think I would have made a very safe solo diver.

The difference between you and me is I don't take solo diving lightly ... not even the casual ones in places I've done hundreds of dives. People die by taking their easy dives too casually. Look up Wes Skiles sometime ... the dude was way more experienced than me, and he died on a 70-foot reef dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Foxfish]

In the SDI solo diving book, the types of dives not recommended for solo divers are staged deco diving, wreck diving, penetration diving, cavern and cave dives, pinnacle dives and any form of technical diving.

Seems hypocritical on the one hand to tell me I shouldn't dive in a cavern without doing the requisite penetration training while ignoring this requirement.

It would be interesting to hear Steve Lewis comment on the matter.

 

[BDSC]

As a matter of interest, how many of you solo dive in an overhead environment.

I have a number of times. Not in any type of cave settings because I do believe that if you are going to go into a cave you need to get the proper training, but off the coast here in NC there are a number of wrecks I have been in while solo diving but I don't make it a habit of going deep into the wreck. We also have a city bus that was sank into a local quarry and you can swim thru that but the doors were removed and it's pretty much impossible to get lost or disoriented in it.

It looks like from the pictures you have shown you are talking about swim throughs that are pretty wide open and from what I can tell plenty of light. So if that's the case I wouldn't have a problem doing those dives but to each their own.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

In the SDI solo diving book, the types of dives not recommended for solo divers are staged deco diving, wreck diving, penetration diving, cavern and cave dives, pinnacle dives and any form of technical diving.

Seems hypocritical on the one hand to tell me I shouldn't dive in a cavern without doing the requisite penetration training while ignoring this requirement.

It would be interesting to hear Steve Lewis comment on the matter.

The SDI solo diving book is designed for people with recreational training and very limited (100 dives) experience. What they're actually telling you is that their course isn't intended for people who want to do solo diving in overhead environments ... rightfully so, since their training doesn't in any way prepare you for that type of diving.

You shouldn't do ANY type of diving without first educating yourself on the inherent risks associated with that type of diving, and without preparing yourself for remediating those risks.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Foxfish]

Actually no, the book clearly indicates otherwise. Have you read it?

 

[victorzamora]

Actually no, the book clearly indicates otherwise. Have you read it?

Post the excerpt you're talking about, but realize that that book is NOT written for technical divers. It's NOT written for divers trained in overhead. SDI doesn't train any divers in the Tech disciplines, so that is NOT the target audience. Anybody certified to dive in an overhead environment has enough training and experience to make those decisions themselves. I've done a Full Cave dive solo. I have no issue with it. I have issue with people doing it that don't have the training/experience to make the decision for themselves....yet they shouldn't be in that environment WITH a buddy, either.