No solo diving in overhead environment

[Storker]

I am doing a presentation in march that I'm now developing that deals with some of the misconceptions about so called safe overheads like caverns and swim thru's. It is based on my own values and ethics as well as training and experience, but in essence it boils down to that these "safe" overheads are just an accident waiting to happen for those who don't want to play by the rules or are outright lied to about how dangerous they can be.

I would be very, very interested and equally grateful if you would make that presentation generally available when it's finished (or given, or when you deem appropriate).

Just a request


EDIT: Just found out that this was a long thread and a zombie resurrected from the grave. I'll have another look when I'm on my PC to check if any of the PDF links point to that info. If so, just disregard my post
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[Jim Lapenta]

There are no links. I have the power point and the text is in my head.

 

[Storker]

Ok. Would there be any point in sharing the PP, or is too much of the info in your head?

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[boulderjohn]

I teach a PADI-sanctioned course named Understanding Overhead Environments that teaches the nature of different levels of overhead environments, showing the increasing level of risk as you progress from a simple arch to a cave or a deep, unprepared wreck. It teaches the kind of training, experience, and equipment needed as you progress through the different levels of challenge and why they are needed.

No, I can't send you the materials. It is a course you would need to take from a qualified instructor.

 

[Omisson]

I went to go dive at Ginnie this past week - probably the last 3-4 times I've dove there, my buddy and I have checked in at separate times, or I haven't had one at all. This time, the girl behind the counter (I assume manager/ownership level employee) refused to check me in unless my buddy and I were standing there together at the same time. She said "oh, you're only open water certified?" as if to imply if I had any level of cave certification she would allow me to solo dive (presumably in a cave). All I wanted to do was get some more bottom time practicing kicks and basic skills near the end of my camping trip I took with my girlfriend (not a certified diver, yet).

Baffles me how it would be okay for me to solo CAVE dive, but because I only held an AOW certification, it wasn't okay for me to kick around and shoot a buoy in 15-20 feet of open water when I'm wearing a drysuit, wing, double 100s, an AL30 pony, and have a spare mask stuffed in my thigh pocket.

It baffles you because you lack an understanding of the requirements to be a full cave diver.... or don't appreciate the number of idiot recreational divers who try and sneak in a cavern/cave dive without the training- exposing themselves to life endangering diving... and often ending up as a statistic.

Full cave is a technical certification, with redundancy requirements for all equipment (lights, regs, tanks, cutting tools). It comes only after rigorous training and several levels of training before full cave (cavern, intro, apprentice). It uses very specialized equipment and methodology.

Your "average" full cave diver is probably better trained than your "average" open water scuba instructor- and light years ahead of most recreational divers. Every cave dive (and every technical dive for that matter) is really a "solo" dive... but sometimes you are diving solo ... together. In other words you are always self sufficiently diving even when you are diving with a buddy.

 

[Storker]

I teach a PADI-sanctioned course named Understanding Overhead Environments [...]

No, I can't send you the materials. It is a course you would need to take from a qualified instructor.

Besides, you teach for a living, right? Giving away course material for free wouldn't exactly add to your salary...


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[Redshift]

I teach a PADI-sanctioned course named Understanding Overhead Environments that teaches the nature of different levels of overhead environments, showing the increasing level of risk as you progress from a simple arch to a cave or a deep, unprepared wreck.

And prepared wrecks as well, I hope?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Your "average" full cave diver is probably better trained than your "average" open water scuba instructor-

... as a recreational scuba instructor and a full cave diver, I will say that you can eliminate the word "probably" ... although I would also contend that you can't really compare the two, so "better" is a relative term.

The training, skills, equipment and mindset between cave diving and recreational dive instruction are so different that they really defy comparison. A good example of what you're talking about, though, would be the incident a year or so back where Edd Sorensen had to go rescue some scuba instructor's daughter after her dad foolishly led her and her brother into a cave ... relying on his scuba instructing skills, which proved inadequate rather quickly. Thankfully ... and primarily due to a number of lucky circumstances ... Edd found her and brought her out of the cave alive. The odds of that happening are not high. Had she gone in there alone, she would certainly have died ... and unnoticed until some unlucky cave diver happened upon her body.

On the other hand, a properly trained cave diver would know how to prepare for such a dive, how to approach the dive in such a way that they could find their way out, how to plan and manage their breathing gas such that they would emerge with a sufficient reserve, how much reserves to plan for in case of an emergency, and have developed sufficient skills and techniques to avoid such emergencies in the first place. Someone without the training wouldn't really understand the risks well enough to do much more than wing it and hope for the best.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BDSC]

That's not for you to decide.
Stop telling us what to do or not to do.

Have you actually read this thread?

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Have you actually read this thread?

I will let Doc speak for himself - but if you go back and read Foxfish's posts again

I think Grateful Diver said it best...
God, I just love it when someone who has "educated" themselves on the internet insists on correcting people who have actually taken the class and done the dives ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)