No parts returned on annual overhaul

[krjeffcoat]

Perhaps I'm living in the past but I always remember getting parts back when I've had a regulator overhauled, with the exception today. I brought my SP MK11 in for an annual (it's been 2 years however). ........

Anyway, I picked up the regulator (it was just a 1st stage actually) today. No paperwork, no parts, no techs initials, no checklist, just an invoice for the parts kit and the service. I did ask if there was any additional paperwork or old parts and was told "No, that's all he dropped off".

I believe the LDS has a good reputation and has been around for some time, but now I'm just sitting here looking at this 1st stage and wondering.....

What would you do?

I appreciate all the comments and was quite surprised at the number of replies and the passionate responses.

In all my annual service cases in the past (using 3 dive shops, 2 in the Seattle metro area & one in Hong Kong), I have received a detailed tech's report and the used parts. I just guessed (OK, assumed) this was an industry practice but I've learned here that indeed it is not. I have no reason to believe I have been cheated or that the service was substandard, but, out of an abundance of caution, I dropped off the same MK11 at Authorized Scubapro dealer this morning, discussed his in-house service policies and procedures, and ask for another annual overhaul.

This turned out to be an expensive lesson but I'd rather not find out there is an issue at 60 or 80 feet, since this will be the setup I use on my pony.

Thanks again for all the comments!

 

[scubafanatic]

Another reason for not returning the parts might be embarrassment that there's so few......might make the customer question what they just paid for.
One could also bulk up that Sherwood used parts bag with a few random extra o rings and seats!

...be cool to tuss an old sparkplug in the bag and see if anyone notices.

 

[redacted]

I can give herman free used parts for life. It falls under the FPL program.

That should be the attitude of any good shop/tech that knows what it is doing. The old parts are of little to no value except in a pinch. But they are not dangerous to anyone other than the shop that risks losing business as customers gain knowledge the shop does not want them to have. If used parts were dangerous, shops would not be leaving so many of them in the regulators they service. In almost all cases, the parts that were removed from a regulator during service were still in working condition and functioning reasonable well. It would probably be difficult to find a shop that does not re-use old parts, particularly o-rings. Very few manufacturer service kits include all replaceable soft parts. They often contain only dynamic o-rings with service procedures calling for cleaning, inspection, and re-use of many "replaceable" parts.

It is not that those who feel it is their role to destroy or deny access to old parts are not doing a proper service, but the return of old parts just makes it clearer that their service, and operation, is on the up and up. I have often wondered how many of these old parts that a shop insists on keeping even when they charge for kits are returned to the manufacturer for free parts. There are just too many opportunities for shops to run small scams to make a few extra bucks. Unfortunately, I suspect the number of shops routinely running such scams is not insignificant. Ever wonder how many Mk10s a Scubapro shop could service with a single Mk10 service kit? I'd bet some are doing 3 or more at $20 a pop for parts for each service.

 

[Wookie]

That should be the attitude of any good shop/tech that knows what it is doing. The old parts are of little to no value except in a pinch. But they are not dangerous to anyone other than the shop that risks losing business as customers gain knowledge the shop does not want them to have. If used parts were dangerous, shops would not be leaving so many of them in the regulators they service. In almost all cases, the parts that were removed from a regulator during service were still in working condition and functioning reasonable well. It would probably be difficult to find a shop that does not re-use old parts, particularly o-rings. Very few manufacturer service kits include all replaceable soft parts. They often contain only dynamic o-rings with service procedures calling for cleaning, inspection, and re-use of many "replaceable" parts.

It is not that those who feel it is their role to destroy or deny access to old parts are not doing a proper service, but the return of old parts just makes it clearer that their service, and operation, is on the up and up. I have often wondered how many of these old parts that a shop insists on keeping even when they charge for kits are returned to the manufacturer for free parts. There are just too many opportunities for shops to run small scams to make a few extra bucks. Unfortunately, I suspect the number of shops routinely running such scams is not insignificant. Ever wonder how many Mk10s a Scubapro shop could service with a single Mk10 service kit? I'd bet some are doing 3 or more at $20 a pop for parts for each service.

I don't not give them back for any nefarious purpose, I never really even considered anyone would want that salty old junk. Remember, when I get regs to rebuild it's been out on deck for a year or 3 (or 5)(or at failure), never been rinsed, sometimes it gets hosed off, can't hardly get any air through the sintered filter, and usually need a hundred bucks worth of hard parts (main springs or pistons or swivels) to make them work again. I rebuild the regs most would throw away, except they're $1400 a throw these days.

Usually everyone is happy they got it back and working, they aren't worried about all of the junk I had to put into it.... Then, they aren't retail customers I'm dealing with. Usually it's crew who are watching me and trying to figure out how a regulator works.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't not give them back for any nefarious purpose, I never really even considered anyone would want that salty old junk. Remember, when I get regs to rebuild it's been out on deck for a year or 3 (or 5)(or at failure), never been rinsed, sometimes it gets hosed off, can't hardly get any air through the sintered filter, and usually need a hundred bucks worth of hard parts (main springs or pistons or swivels) to make them work again. I rebuild the regs most would throw away, except they're $1400 a throw these days.

Usually everyone is happy they got it back and working, they aren't worried about all of the junk I had to put into it.... Then, they aren't retail customers I'm dealing with. Usually it's crew who are watching me and trying to figure out how a regulator works.

I thought of taking a few of my old regs to the absolute max just to see how long they could go and what amount of abuse they could take before they stop working completely. Maybe I'll take my old MK20 to the test from hell.
I'm interested to see just how bad a reg can get and still work.
It would be even cooler to rebuild a reg and actually notice a difference and get some sort of feeling that I did something rather than just being a parts changer.

 

[Wookie]

I thought of taking a few of my old regs to the absolute max just to see how long they could go and what amount of abuse they could take before they stop working completely. Maybe I'll take my old MK20 to the test from hell.
I'm interested to see just how bad a reg can get and still work.
It would be even cooler to rebuild a reg and actually notice a difference and get some sort of feeling that I did something rather than just being a parts changer.

As far as I'm concerned, an Atomic is nothing more than a Mk20 built of exotic metal. I have one I haven't touched in 10 years, but it only gets used for deco gas, so I would expect it to be pristine inside. I don't believe in rebuilding regs just because a manufacturer is covering their butts with a service plan, but if I do rebuild them, they come up to the latest and greatest model.

 

[halocline]

I thought of taking a few of my old regs to the absolute max just to see how long they could go and what amount of abuse they could take before they stop working completely. Maybe I'll take my old MK20 to the test from hell.
I'm interested to see just how bad a reg can get and still work.
It would be even cooler to rebuild a reg and actually notice a difference and get some sort of feeling that I did something rather than just being a parts changer.

My experience is that regulators tend to degrade in performance over time, slightly but noticeably. That's when I usually rebuild. On 2nd stages maybe they start to flow a bit so I have to adjust the orifice and increase the cracking pressure a bit, or on 1sts they start to creep a bit and I get annoyed. So in those cases I really do notice a difference. I've never let one go until it fails, but I suspect by far the most common failure mode is going to be a constant leak. This is most likely to occur immediately on pressurization.

I rebuilt a MK25 once that had an IP of 180, still worked.

 

[j2s]

If you are worried being ripped off, thinking getting some parts back, you probably anyway could not identify, would proof the work is done correctly, you might better be off coming to the 'Dark Side' and service your regulator next time yourself.

It's not that difficult......

Ditto....Buy the tools, they'll pay for themselves !!!!!!!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I got an old MK3/108 from a guy for free once.
It was so corroded and so bad that I thought it was absolutely hopeless. It was from the mid to late 60's. It was used when my friend got it. Prior to that it was a loaner/pool training reg that never got rinsed or rebuilt. The guy I got it from never rinsed or rebuilt it either and he used it all the way up to the late 80's until he got bent diving to 200 feet on air with it spearing groupers in Florida.
After that it hung on a wall until 2008 when I got it.

When I brought it home I tore it down just because I was curious to see what a destroyed regulator looked like inside. The chrome was so bad on the outside outside that most of it was gone and green was all over it. The reg was so rotten I figured it was just yard art. To my amazement, it actually cleaned up with white vinegar and water.
I managed to find a rubber purge cover and an exhaust mushroom valve for the second stage.
I flipped both seats and sourced the two O-rings for the piston and wouldn't you know it, it worked perfect. It held a perfect IP of 140. I dove it several times and enjoyed a classic reg.
Those regs weren't the greatest breathers of all time, but it worked exactly as it did when it was new.

 

[Bigd2722]

Ditto....Buy the tools, they'll pay for themselves !!!!!!!

Naw, they won't pay for themselves, but their still worth it