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No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

Discussion in 'Near Misses and Lessons Learned' started by BadGoat, May 29, 2019.

  1. kelemvor

    kelemvor Big Fleshy Monster ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Largo, FL USA
    For all I know they are identical except for the pricetag. I don't even see power inflators on the diverite website except attached to wings or bcds. Actually, now that I think about it.. I'm not using the dge inflator anymore because I switched to Air2. Air2's are kind of pricey, so my SAD still includes a regular inflator and extra regs.. if it gives out on a trip I'd switch back to the old school domafaches.

    Vindicators are a good and cheap solution to the problem. Unfortunately, most people dive on rental tanks.. and in my experience that means the cheapest valves money can buy. Vindicator Valve Knobs $15 bucks.
    Jay likes this.
  2. gypsyjim

    gypsyjim I have an alibi ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: capital region of New York
    I am not going to trade insults with you, or question your training. That is childish.

    If you are a part of a team, you are all playing by the same set of rules and you are each watching each other's back. That describes team diving.

    If you are NOT a part of that team, and you take it upon yourself to alter or adjust another diver's gear without their permission you are potentially putting their life at risk. Just imagine the reaction of your "team", should a complete stranger begin to change and adjust one of your team's rigs without consulting you, simply because they knew they were "right"...
    It would not fly, I am certain.

    If you see something that you find questionable, or in your opinion, risky, you are quite free to speak up, but you are totally out of line if you take it upon yourself to alter their gear without their consent or knowledge.
    BenjaminF, shoredivr and Laurie S. like this.
  3. Jay

    Jay Need to dive more!

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Melbourne, OZ.
    Perhaps you guys have got your wires crossed

    I assume you're not including a pre-splash check of the tank valve in that comment?

    And that's the only thing DD has commented about physically touching without permission:

    Diving Dubai likes this.
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Auckland NZ
    From my POV I go back to first lecture I ever had about diving--actually from my dad. dive accidents are rarely one huge incident .More often its a series of small things that together make for something serious. In this case regardless of the right/wrong of someone touching your gear The BC should have been fixed before even thinking of taking the plunge.
    Diving Dubai likes this.
  5. chillyinCanada

    chillyinCanada Solo Diver Staff Member

    Well, y'all can say that you always do XYZ because I do too. I check my gear over everytime and also do the huffs off reg whilst looking at my guage. I do it every single time without fail . . .except for a couple of times that it turned out that somehow I must have become distracted because I've still managed to enter the water twice in 20 years without my air turned on. How did that happen? Cuz ya know, I check without fail every single time!!

    Then there was the time that I was the last diver in by stride, as I called out, wait for me! And found myself at 15' trying to figure out what felt different and thereupon realized that I didn't have my reg in my mouth.

    In any event, what I'm trying to say is that we are human, at least I am. While I endeavour to do my checks *every* *single* *time* without fail, apparently, I've still managed to fail, a time or two. I try to keep that in the front and the back of my mind. Keeps me a bit humble and hopefully a bit more careful, every single time.
  6. Diving Dubai

    Diving Dubai Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Dubai UAE
    Thank you Jay, yes only touching and checking pre-dive.

    The only person's gear I would ever fix/adjust or whom I'd allow to adjust/ fix my gear, is my wife.

    Anyone else I'll signal or communicate with wetnotes/slate and let them sort the issue. unless they are really struggling the only assistance I'll give is to gently keep them stable in the water column

    Me too. never splashed without gas on, but got to the point of about to enter with my gas off a couple times which my final checks caught, then had to ask for my gas to be turned on. I'd rather people learn from my mistakes than make them themselves
    chillyinCanada and Jay like this.
  7. gypsyjim

    gypsyjim I have an alibi ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: capital region of New York
    This thread was not a discussion about checking gas valves, but about other divers physically making changes without permission.
    shoredivr and Lorenzoid like this.
  8. gypsyjim

    gypsyjim I have an alibi ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: capital region of New York
    The only fatality I have witnessed resulted from a series of mistakes or problems which began when a diver and the crew realized that that diver had an Air2 reg, but the rental BC supplied by the op had the standard inflator valve, which will not fit the Air2 inflator.
    Since the boat was already on site before gear was assembled, the crew had no way to resolve the equipment mismatch, and advised the diver to just dive with the valve disconnected. From my seat near the rear of the boat I watched this discussion, and I really felt that the diver was not comfortable with doing this, but agreed anyway.
    There were other mistakes and miscommunications that I believe all contributed to the fatality, although the true cause was never established as far as I know.
    Since that dive my brother who dives an Air2, began carrying a set of adaptors that could help solve such a dilemma, should it occur.
  9. peeweediver

    peeweediver Barracuda

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Chicago area
    Very nice post. I could say..."I'm an instructor with 7 billion dives to my credit and absolutely, positively check everything twice before splashing in!!!". But....was on a shore dive in Bonaire last week, floated out to about 7 feet, started down, came back up, looked at my wife and said..."Uhm, could you please turn on my air?". Not so perfect, am I.
    However, wife and I discussed this post and agreed, no inflator hose connection, no dive. That's just us.

    gypsyjim, StefinSB and chillyinCanada like this.
  10. Dan

    Dan Orca

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Lake Jackson, Texas
    I don't mind for someone (DM or crew or dive buddy) to "fix" my gear without asking as long as he / she tells me afterwards.

    There is a situation at one time when a DM, as part of their "service", was to swap the tanks for us during surface interval for the 2nd dive of 2-tank boat dive. He installed my 1st stage upside down without telling me about it. During the dive I didn't understand why my regulator hose became shorter than normal, especially whenever I turned my head to the left. I ended up pulling the primary regulator hose with my teeth on the mouthbit and ended up biting off the regulator mouthbit.

    I learned later on that when you install the regulator upside down, the LP port for my primary regulator hose, that would normally be on the right side of the 1st stage, would then be on the left side. The LP hose then has to loop around to the right, making the hose length shorter.

    The DM excuse was by installing the 1st stage regulator upside down I'll avoid bumping it against the back of my head during back roll entry to the water. Had he told me about it beforehand, I would have swapped the LP port for the power inflator which was then coming out from the right port with that of the primary regulator hose and avoid biting off my mouthbit.

    In the end I ended up swapping the LP ports around and taking his advise to install the 1st stage regulator upside down. Since then I try to:
    (1) install my gear on the tank myself whenever possible,
    (2) advise the crew the right way to install my regulator on the tank if they insist to help as in many liveaboard that I have been on.
    (3) make a quick check on its upside down position including the valve in fully open position, SPG showing around 3000 psig, listening for any hissing noise for potential leak around the valve and a couple quick purge of the primary regulator while watching the SPG needle response before donning on the gear.

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