No BCD diving...

[halocline]

There are all kinds of other issues with diving at 235 ft, apart from BC vs no BC. Partial pressure 02, enough gas for deco, etc...

That said, I happily got introduced to no BC diving when I forgot to bring my wing to a local dive once. Eric's freedom plate works really well for this, BTW. Steel 72s are excellent for it as well because they are neutral when empty.

One thing about the nice streamlined feeling of minimalist diving; it makes you appreciate the hogarthian harness and really streamlined wings available when you do use them.

In addition to the many helpful hints about no-BC diving, I would add that I've gladly picked up a couple of rocks late in BC-less dives. A while back there was a thread in which someone used an inverted bucket for buoyancy.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

No depth limit. In the "old" days, very deep dives were made without a BC.

I only used single tanks in the pre-BC days, but have gone quite deep (well beyond current "recreational" depths). No problem.

Also, no problem holding deco stops. I did get "lightish" above 15 feet or so with a near-empty tank... but not as light as you'd think. My guess is that the wetsuit does not "rebound" completely/immediately after being compressed. For whatever reason, it did not feel as "floaty" as it did at the start of the dive? If this makes sense. Just something I observed.

Best wishes.

You probably said it better and simpler than I did. I tend to get too wordy with explanations.
But I agree, before the first dive the suit is fresh and hasen't been compressed yet. It's maybe been out in the sun all warmed up and the gas bubbles fully inflated. Then you take it down and compress it and also the air cells get cold which makes them retract and the suit gets heavy.
That's why I always say, Do your weight checks after a full length dive at depth. That's really the only way to get an accurate weight check.

 

[DwayneJ]

Two posts refer to "monkey diving" but we already have a Side Mount forum under the Technical Diving Specialities.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/side-mount-divers/

Personally, I have purchased a OMS side mount harness which will change my current OMS harness from back mount to side mount tanks.

There are a number of socal divers who dive without a wing but from what I have seen this requires a wetsuit less than the 8/7mm I use today.

Dwayne

 

[Nemrod]

Cool. What tank/tanks are you diving? Do you do deco stops? (mentioned in my post)

This dive was done on double 72s, was a deco dive, was solo, was done from a boat that belonged to a one eyed skipper who appeared positively ancient to me in 1976. I had been told of a mysterious hole in the sea by the fellow and bountiful giant sea creatures and my mission was to discover it's nature. A trip of many hours over the bounding sea and a solar cycle brought the leaky, creaky old boat to the secret location. The bottom was about 120 feet, the hole went down, down, down, I stopped at 235 feet give or take. An assistant met me at 100 feet with additional air and assisted my deco as was the plan. That is my story, believe it or not.

It was before GPS, the old captain has been dead now 30 years, no, I don't know exactly where it is, no I have not found it since. It was my best diver ever .

Rubatex G-231 rubber is the best neoprene, warm, tough, does not compress much, great stuff.

Back then we did not have our cute little all black Scuba Steve outfits like people do today, I had on cutoffs, a t-shirt and beaver tail top, an Ikelite Modular light and a really big Sea Hawk knife, what else you need?

I might have looked like this fellow:

I have not aged well, here I am awaiting my wife to bring the Whaler around and gather me, having returned from 110 feet on the Timber Holes, the disgusted look is a result of my lack of enthusiasm for swimming after the boat while she napped. Still no stink'n BC.

YRMV

N, don't need no stink'n BC

 

[Blackwood]

And Divemasters. While I respect and love Matteo at Blue Angel Resort in Cozumel, I was suprised with the following: I asked him for 4lbs of weight to go with my 6lb plate, and he deliberately handed me two three pound weights.

He never complained when I said I didn't need any

 

[RhatsaRuck]

I don't mean to hijack this thread. If my post belongs in a different forum or its own thread please let me know - I'm still a noob here.

I plan to shore dive here in southeast Florida. I'm not interested in diving for depth; I'd be perfectly happy to spend an hour or more at 0-25 feet. The idea of "minimalist" gear is appealing to me based on budget, weight, simplicity, flexibility, and ease-of-care.

With my 3mm shorty wetsuit I need about 12 lbs of ballast to achieve neutral bouyancy. I doubt I really need a BCD if I'm diving a 60-ish, 72, or 80 cu. ft. aluminum or steel tank. I might need to wear an old-school inflatable life vest as a safety device.

I'm not sure I want to commit to the DIR-life and as I mentioned I do have a limited budget.

Would it be possible to make a DIY backplate by slicing off the bladder portion from an old BCD?

If so, do I need to get a BCD that is "size appropriate" to begin with or can I use any size? For example, based on the specifications for Zeagle BCDs I'd use a large size BCD. Do I need a large size for my intended purpose?

I'm daydreaming that I could buy an old inexpensive small or medium BCD at a flea market and slice n' dice it to suit my needs.

Thoughts?

Pete

 

[captain]

I don't mean to hijack this thread. If my post belongs in a different forum or its own thread please let me know - I'm still a noob here.

I plan to shore dive here in southeast Florida. I'm not interested in diving for depth; I'd be perfectly happy to spend an hour or more at 0-25 feet. The idea of "minimalist" gear is appealing to me based on budget, weight, simplicity, flexibility, and ease-of-care.

With my 3mm shorty wetsuit I need about 12 lbs of ballast to achieve neutral bouyancy. I doubt I really need a BCD if I'm diving a 60-ish, 72, or 80 cu. ft. aluminum or steel tank. I might need to wear an old-school inflatable life vest as a safety device.

I'm not sure I want to commit to the DIR-life and as I mentioned I do have a limited budget.

Would it be possible to make a DIY backplate by slicing off the bladder portion from an old BCD?

If so, do I need to get a BCD that is "size appropriate" to begin with or can I use any size? For example, based on the specifications for Zeagle BCDs I'd use a large size BCD. Do I need a large size for my intended purpose?

I'm daydreaming that I could buy an old inexpensive small or medium BCD at a flea market and slice n' dice it to suit my needs.

Thoughts?

Pete

Look on ebay for an old plastic or aluminum single tank back pack such as

US Divers Aqua-Lung Scuba Diving Tank Backpack Frame - eBay (item 220540299686 end time Jan-23-10 21:03:56 PST)

or

Complete Backpack Assembly - eBay (item 160391701262 end time Feb-01-10 16:37:51 PST)

 

[herman]

I don't mean to hijack this thread. If my post belongs in a different forum or its own thread please let me know - I'm still a noob here.

I plan to shore dive here in southeast Florida. I'm not interested in diving for depth; I'd be perfectly happy to spend an hour or more at 0-25 feet. The idea of "minimalist" gear is appealing to me based on budget, weight, simplicity, flexibility, and ease-of-care.

With my 3mm shorty wetsuit I need about 12 lbs of ballast to achieve neutral bouyancy. I doubt I really need a BCD if I'm diving a 60-ish, 72, or 80 cu. ft. aluminum or steel tank. I might need to wear an old-school inflatable life vest as a safety device.

I'm not sure I want to commit to the DIR-life and as I mentioned I do have a limited budget.

Would it be possible to make a DIY backplate by slicing off the bladder portion from an old BCD?

If so, do I need to get a BCD that is "size appropriate" to begin with or can I use any size? For example, based on the specifications for Zeagle BCDs I'd use a large size BCD. Do I need a large size for my intended purpose?

I'm daydreaming that I could buy an old inexpensive small or medium BCD at a flea market and slice n' dice it to suit my needs.

Thoughts?

Pete

Pretty much any of the old back packs can be gotten for under $20, just keep in mind that many of them were made for steel 72's and similar diameter tanks and will not work with AL-80s. Some of the early BC (the horrid orange ones mostly) have internal BPs that can be easily removed and can be had for cheap, still the BPs are the best option. You can also still buy an old style plastic BP for around $50, forget where I saw them but they are still available. Another fairly inexpensive option is the Zeagle Express Tech. At around $250 it is fairly inexpensive, the bladder removes easily for no bladder use but can be reattached quickly if the dive op objects to no BC. And as an added bonus it works well with double hose regs, something some of the old BPs do not do well.

I would also suggest a really good weigh check. Proper weighting is critical with no bladder diving and honestly 12 lbs sounds on the heavy side for a 3mm. I use 10 lbs with a 5mm in salt water, 4 with no wetsuit in saltwater and no weights at all in fresh with no wetsuit.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Pretty much any of the old back packs can be gotten for under $20, just keep in mind that many of them were made for steel 72's and similar diameter tanks and will not work with AL-80s. Some of the early BC (the horrid orange ones mostly) have internal BPs that can be easily removed and can be had for cheap, still the BPs are the best option. You can also still buy an old style plastic BP for around $50, forget where I saw them but they are still available. Another fairly inexpensive option is the Zeagle Express Tech. At around $250 it is fairly inexpensive, the bladder removes easily for no bladder use but can be reattached quickly if the dive op objects to no BC. And as an added bonus it works well with double hose regs, something some of the old BPs do not do well.

I would also suggest a really good weigh check. Proper weighting is critical with no bladder diving and honestly 12 lbs sounds on the heavy side for a 3mm. I use 10 lbs with a 5mm in salt water, 4 with no wetsuit in saltwater and no weights at all in fresh with no wetsuit.

You can still get brand new plastic packs from Trident, (or a Trident dealer). You may have to special order it.

Or, you can get a brand new Freedom Plate from me and solve all your back plate and back pack needs for ever. I know, shameless!!!

I'm just sayin'

 

[RhatsaRuck]

Pretty much any of the old back packs can be gotten for under $20, just keep in mind that many of them were made for steel 72's and similar diameter tanks and will not work with AL-80s.

You mean due to the AL80s' larger diameter I assume. I see from the Scuba Cylinder Specification Chart from Huron Scuba, Ann Arbor Michigan that the 72 cu. ft. cylinders from back in the day are 6.9 inches in diameter. That means I'd have to be careful because most modern cylinders have a larger diameter. Good to know. Thanks for pointing out that.

Now that I think about it this brings me back to my original question. Given that most BCs produced in the past few years do work with larger diameter cylinders is it still reasonable to try to slice n' dice an existing older BC to extract the backpack and webbing? And if that might work do I need a size large (I'm 6 ft, 190 lbs, 44 inch chest, 38 inch waist) BC or could I deconstruct a size small or medium BC? In other words does the backpack component of modern BCs vary with regard to the size of the BC?

I would also suggest a really good weigh check. Proper weighting is critical with no bladder diving and honestly 12 lbs sounds on the heavy side for a 3mm. I use 10 lbs with a 5mm in salt water, 4 with no wetsuit in saltwater and no weights at all in fresh with no wetsuit.

Good point. Today while snorkeling I experimented maintaining neutral buoyancy. I was diving in the Atlantic wearing a nylon bathing suit and rash guard shirt under my 3mm shorty wetsuit (a Deep See model with sleeves chopped at the bicep), a pair of ScubaPro Jet Fins large (the more buoyant model with the lightning on the label), a mask and snorkel, and a 7 pouch weight belt loaded with 4X3lb Sea Pearl lead pounches.

I attained neutral buoyancy by hanging vertically in the water, inhaling fully, and holding my breath. As long as I held my breath my head was just touching the water line and the top of my snorkel was above the water's surface. When I exhaled I sank to the bottom fairly quickly. The water was 10-12 feet deep so it didn't take long to touch bottom.

I concluded that I was neutrally bouyant with 12 lbs weighting. Is there something else I should consider to determine neutral buoyancy?