NMF Charter/Headboat permit

[Tortuga James]

While looking for a charter for an Oriskany trip, I came across a operation out of Pensacola that claimed to be one of 3 boats permitted to spear in Federal waters. I did a little research, and it seems a commercial grouper/snapper permit may be required in the gulf to recreational spearfish in Federal waters. Is that true?

I gave up charter rod and reel sportfishing, so I let all my NMF fisheries permits expire (namely the HMS Charter/Headboat Permit for billfish and tuna). Is there a Federal permit I need to let my customers spear beyond state lines in NC? I carry a state blanket license.

 

[Akyla]

James,
I do believe that we still have to carry the federal permit in the charter headboat category. I have them all for my boat and just recently dropped the commercial for sale wahoo/dolphin one since I rarely ever did a trip just for that purpose. This is the SE regional web site info Permit Details :: Southeast Regional Office

I think the keywording here is possession of the specie, they don't care if it is hook n line or speared. But I can't spear giant blue fins with my category as they were very explicit that would require a harpoon permit...

 

[Reef Pirate]

Hook and line or spearfishing requires a Gulf Charter/Headboat permit, there are two of them reef fish and pelagic. There are over 1100 permits currently active in the GOM covering the coastline between Florida and Texas. The permits are under a moratorium and no new permits can be purchased. In order to run a legal charter business in the GOM in Federal waters you must have these permits. Trust me there are far more then 3 in Panama City.

 

[CaptJT]

Holding a blanket NC fishing Lic. for your charter group does not cover federal waters and the NOAA permits required for charter boats who engage in fishing by R&R or by spearfishing. There are three permits required that each charter boat should have to cover what your party may spear, these fall under the Open Access Charter/Headboat Permits . On top of that each Captain must hold a photo ID Vessel Operator Permit Card which must be renewed every few years as it will have an expiration date, permits are every year. In addition to those things once you get the snapper/grouper permit it triggers the turtle release kit etc. you will need on the boat. It does not matter that you are not R&R fishing but you will still be required to have all the dehookers etc. as the permit doesn't spilt the two.

NOAA has made it easy for competitors to cheese on each other by placing the name of the boat and location of who has the permits on this website Common FOIA Requests :: Southeast Regional Office Meaning if you are running charters and either you or your party are posting pics and reports of your catch and your boat is not listed on that site……well you are running an illegal operation.

 

[Tortuga James]

Who would "cheese" on another Captain?

 

[Dr Dive]

Who would "cheese" on another Captain?

Other captains may, or may not, report other captains. Depends on local camaraderie, or lack thereof. It is not beyond the Feds to put undercover officers on board to observe for illegal fishing. Just a few years ago, enforcement was a "nod and a wink", for small time operators, until a couple captains got to bragging at the bar over some fish they shot on a charter trip. Investigations ensued, fines were levied, and it all got caught up in the current enforcement zeitgeist.

Now, it's black and white. No permits, no fishing in federal waters. You can't even have gear aboard, if you go into federal waters without them. Pairs of permits go for a pretty penny, and there are only a few captains in Pensacola that have them. Not sure about NC, but you can fish state waters with just a state commercial fishing lic. In Fl. state waters. Even at that, not all boats in Pcola have state license either, so it pays to ask, if spearing in on your agenda.

 

[Tortuga James]

Depends on local camaraderie, or lack thereof. .

You said a mouthful there.

In the Southeast region, specifically NC, to fish either hook and line or spear recreationally for hire, you must possess an Operator's Card and specific species Headboat/Charter permits to fish in Federal Waters. A state license is required to bring any of those fish to port. Commercial fishing permits are much harder to obtain, they are not issuing any new ones, you have to purchase a transfer from an existing permit holder. To my knowledge, commercial permits have much higher catch limits and allow sale of fish to permitted wholesalers. Charter/Headboat operators must adhere to recreational creel limits and is for personal consumption only.

Enforcement here is either invisible or non-existent. I was told by the NCDMF that there was one federal enforcement officer in Morehead. I would suspect the only way any fishing/dive spearfishing charter would get checked would be the result of the drop of a dime.

 

[CaptJT]

Who would "cheese" on another Captain?

The problem is you never know who would. Back in the early 2000's the Miss Lindsey would move down to Hatteras a couple times a year. One year they were ticketed for the lack of the grouper permit. They did not even know they had to have it as there is no grouper or snapper to spear in Va. It was commonly thought which local did the deed. Hatteras is fairly a tight group and don't like outsiders and takes years to be accepted in the charter business. Also if memory is correct it was the USCG that was used, but could be wrong.

As a test to see who was watching me back when the NC fishing lic. was started I got the lic. but held off placing the sticker on the boat and sure enough the first day I came in with fish the local dive boat whom we believed had done the deed on the Miss Lindsey showed up saying he noticed I didn't have my sticker. There are those in Morehead and south who are rumored to do a bit of cheesing.

In early 90's I remember hearing a rumor of someone doing an Anonymous tip to the USCG of drugs being hid in scuba tanks to prevent a certain charter in Morehead from going to a certain wreck. Ask around there's lots of stuff in the closet down your way. You're still new to the game down that way but with the fighting you saw of the two dive boats that split do you really think that was the first fight down there.

 

[Tortuga James]

Ask around there's lots of stuff in the closet down your way. You're still new to the game down that way but with the fighting you saw of the two dive boats that split do you really think that was the first fight down there.

I know of all these things. Intimately.

 

[CaptJT]

I know of all these things. Intimately.

Great, then you can provide some facts to clear up the rumors. Which boat was it that the USCG stopped, the captain, and searched for drugs. Did they really let the air out of the tanks and look inside the tanks? Who was the person that did the Anonymous Tip? Why did they do it? Been over twenty years, boat is gone, some are dead, the captain still remains I think. But I'd really like to hear the details as should every know how an untrue anonymous tip can effect you with no recourse or legal case against the person who did the anonymous tip even when they know it's not true when they do it.

I could really rattle off all I know about the boat split, deaths, accidents, of the people involved.But it'd be better to make a hellva story in a book. If you ever want to know some of the truths always get a copy of the accident reports through the FOIA. While usually the USCG has little to no knowledge about diving and often come to the wrong or off base conclusion. All the facts will be there to write the stories, each person while the name is blacked out can be figured out, even the ones that write in or call in to report things hoping to change/steer the investigation where they want it to go. Talk about trying to cheese after the fact. You have no idea until you read some of that stuff.

I know Gary has written about all the hate and same **** on the NE dive boats in his books but that is because he was there for most of it. Mid Atlantic and southern region has the same **** or worse but no one willing to write about it. The thing every captain, diver, or boat does that suspects they may be in a Gary Gentile book the first thing they do is go to the back, find their name, go to the page and read what he has said. Not because they are in a book but because they fear what he may say.

I made a pitch for a TV show about charter dive boats, all they need is about five boats with enough real **** that happens to be the top show around. I called it "One Breath From Death", but we get the made up drama of the show "Catching Hell". I don't know maybe they did talk to some of the dive boats and they declined not wanting the truth of the dive charter industry out there. What do you think would the show be good.