Nitrox Tank Cleaning

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Of course that's the last they'll be seeing of me. But I'm curious, how badly was I screwed?[/QUOTE]


Yep! You've been had big time.

My LDS would do a vip, O2 clean, labels and a fill for $50 each no matter where I bought the tank. They only charge $12 for a hydro.
If they are new don't they already have a vip and are O2 ready or is it different for AL 80's? My 2 PST 100's came ready to go from PST.
 
I wouldn't have paid that, the verbal contract was for $50.

They can have the stickers, tags, orings and nitrox back. Rip, Pssssst.



- The vip should not have been done. The 02 Clean sticker should have been included as part of the cleaning.

- Nitrox labels should have been included in the O2 cleaning or not put on your tanks. Regardless $12 each is insane. Thank god the shops I go to don't require this kind of junk.

- Contents tags? Uhh.. How much is 2 inches of duct tape worth? Free with fill.

- 10 cents worth of O-Rings. Should be included in price of valve cleaning.

- $50 for a tank and $14 for the valve is a touch high, but not unreasonable. They did lie to you, the valve was supposed to be included in the $50.

- $10 for a 32% fill isn't robbery ether. Many places will include this as part of the cleaning, but I wouldn't call the charge here as robbery and it sounds like you requested it.


You got robbed.
 
im with jimc
o2 clean lable should be included..
the parts should have been included in the price
the nitrox sticker, and contents sticker. they might have assumed on the phone you had that but should have noticed when you got there you didnt have it and said something. OR not put them on and sell em to ya when you returned..
the fill price is fair
weather or not the valve is part of the tank service or not. is up to the shop, but they need to tell ya that....
who has a tank o2 cleaned, and NOT the valve....
anyway...my advice to you is..
learn to do it yourself......
anyway sorry to hear about your bad experence...
better luck next time
 
OUCH! As mentioned already above you got hosed, big time.

Also, if they quoted you $50, why didn't you hold them to it? Usually in my neck of the woods, the O2 clean process will include all the trimmings and not be extra, especially the o-rings for $14??? They cost a few pennies each for Pete's sake.

Better luck next time.
 
mccabejc:
Of course that's the last they'll be seeing of me. But I'm curious, how badly was I screwed?
By any chance did they consider the phone call foreplay and at least kiss you first?

Did they treat it as an office call or going to the ER?

I'd be finding another date and telling everyone I know this date has something they don't want.

Gary D.
 
Jim,
First off let me apologize for the misunderstanding regarding SafeAir cleaning your equipment. It may not have been made clear to you during your Nitrox Classes, that all equipment must meet three very clear standards for SafeAir/Nitrox use. I do not know where you took your EAN Classes at.

1. The equipment must be engineered for oxygen enriched gas use. Luxfer, Catalina, and PST all give us approval for cleaning their newer cylinders. Once cleaned all equipment must be properly tagged. The SafeAir six inch stickers are priced at $12 and have been for over ten years. The contents tags are priced at $6 and also have been the sam for ten years. The VIP+ is not just simply looking into your cylinders. Due to the fact they are aluminum, we are required by the industry to use an Eddy Current Machine to check for microscopic cracks in the necks of the cylinders. If they were steel, the VIP is $6 as the steel cylinders do not require this added computerized process. VIP+ is $15 per aluminum cylinder. The standard of the industry is anytime a cylinder is emptied a full VIP is required. With aluminum cylinders you cannot simply put a light inside the tank and hope for the best. This is not an "O2 VIP".

2. The Equipment must be oxygen cleaned. The process is physically time consuming and equipment consuming. To do this we use a oxygen approved detergent called Blue Gold. The Blue Gold is heated up then poured into the tanks and whipped with a carbide whip for ten minutes each. Then they are washed completely and heat dried. The valves are cooked in Blue Gold in a Ultra Sonic Cleaner for thirty minutes. Once cleaned they are handled with latex gloves to prevent oil from our bodies from getting on the valves. All seating surfaces are coated with crystal lube which is an oxygen compatable lubricant.

3. Only Oxygen Compatable Materials Can Be Used- We use only the highest grade materials available for any of our oxygen enriched air equipment. Viton orings, segregated Snap On Tools for use only with cleaned surfaces, MCG Crystal Lube and Oxygen Compatible Air. Our gas is tested every quarter by Trace Analytics in Texas. Our gas is certified Oxygen Compatable Air, so we must charge $10 per EAN fill just to cover the costs of cleaning the gas, testing the gas, and giving you some oxygen on top of it.Does your freind's store have certified pure air? Probably not. We do not just pull the gas out of thin air. If we gave the gas away for free what would be the purpose of selling it in the first place?

One of the other reasons we prefer to sell the PST E-Cylinders is that they come prepared for and Oxygen Enriched Environment. Just purchasing the cylinder would have saved you the cost of cleaning and the VIP+. You got what you paid for.

Our way of doing business is to do it right the first time. We spare no expense in the training of our Service Technicians or the equipment that is used in the preparation for SafeAir/Nitrox use. Simply put we do not cut corners. SSA has been in business for over forty years and takes great pride in the quality of instruction, service, and equipment found no where else in Southern California. We are the offical dive store for Universal Studios, The Local 80 Motion Picture Divers Union , Antimite, Terminix and many other reputable business for one reason only...we do things the right way and we do things promptly.

I would encourage you to sit in on one of our Service Technician Courses, free of charge, and truly understand what goes into the preparation of SafeAir/Nitrox equipment. I would also highly recommend that you sit through one of our SafeAir/Nitrox Divers programs so you also have a better apreciation of what the gas is, how it is blended, and why it is kept clean.

We are not a sporting goods store or a mom and pop business. I know of no other store in Southern California that can service every type of diving equipment usually the same day with only authorized parts from an authorized service technician from that manufacturer.

Once again I apologize for the misunderstanding and encourage you to come in and get educated on the why's, the what's, and the how's of SafeAir/Nitrox use and requirements. Scuba Schools of America's guideline for Enriched Air Cleaning are consistant with the Compressed Gas Association, The National Fire Prevention Association, NASA, NOAA and more importantly American Nitrox Divers International, (ANDI). To do things the right way costs more. If you want a cheaper way of diving, dive on regular old air and deal with dirty gas, shorter bottom times, longer surface intervals, and a higher cost per dive base upon less time.

SSA's way of doing business is to do it right the first time. Thank you for your time and I I look forward to your reply.

Warmest Regards,
 
mccabejc:
Bought a couple brand new AL-80's today, and took to another shop to convert to nitrox. Called a local shop, who told me it would cost $50 each to O2 clean tank + valve. Cool. I figured I'd get outta there for a little over $110 total.

Took them to the shop, only took them 1/2 day to do the cleaning and fill with nitrox. Cool. I was expecting a week or so.

Got the bill. Total cost: $220 freakin' dollars !!!. That's what it cost me to buy the two tanks in the first place !!!!

Here's the rundown:

They did VIP's on both, even though they had just been VIP'd about 3 hours before, and I told them before they were brand new: Cost $30

Two of those cylinder wrap stickers that says "NITROX" or whatever: Cost: $24. Are you freakin' kidding me?? $24 for two stickers?

Two contents tags: Cost $12

Six Viton O-rings: Cost $15

Actual cleaning of tanks and valves: Cost $118

31.2% nitrox fills (damn, they couldn't even get that right): Cost $20

Of course that's the last they'll be seeing of me. But I'm curious, how badly was I screwed?
I suspect this is one of the biggest money makers for dive shops. If you call around and have the luxury of more than one LDS you would be surprised at the difference. Some include the VIP, some add it, and yes even some are reasonable. I agree that the expense is excessive. Just my 2 cents worth. I am probably over a dollar by now on my 2 cents worth.
 
mccabejc:
I did. As I mentioned in the first paragraph, they had said $50 each over the phone. But apparently that assumed that the tank had all the tags and stickers, and didn't need a VIP. I had no idea they would nickel and dime me like that.

Though I'm wondering if there is a legit need to do a special VIP for O2 use? Anyone know if there's a difference in VIP's ?

Obviously it's your local law that applies, but certainly here, if the tank is less than a year old (from the date stamped on the tank) it doesn't need a visual.
 
I think pretty much the LDS doesn't make much on a tank sale, but they use it to gauge "loyalty"

example: I purchase a tank at LDS for $20 more than leisure depot, but when I pick it up it has been VIP'd and filled with air. For an additional $25 it has been O2 cleaned, stickered and filled with Nitrox of my choice. Now they have a customer who spent $160 or so for an AL80 and are happy.

example 2: I purchase a tank at Leisure depot and save $20, then bring it to my LDS. They don't know the origins of the tank, it has no sticker and no VIP (Even if it had been done...no sticker, NO VIP) They now charge full price for their services...$25 for hydro and VIP, $12 for a Nitrox fill, $25 for O2 clean and sticker etc...

Both ways the buyer paid roughly the same, the liabilities for this stuff are astounding. I would not touch a tank or other items without first doing the proper VIP's and Cleanings.


On a side note: I think they took a little advantage of you...did you ask how much a AL80 would cost from them, including everything up to a Nitrox fill?
 

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