Nitrox Self-cert??

[Rick Inman]

After tonight's dive, one of the divers told me he is going to self-certify himself for Nitrox.

His plan is to read the Nitrox manual and be sure he understands it completely, easily answering all the questions at the end of each chapter. He'll get himself a set of tables and buy some nitrox tank stickers online.

He already owns a nitrox computer.

He has been told that, with the stickers on his tanks, most shops won't ask for a N-card. He's right about that.

He says that nitrox diving is not a skill, but knowledge. He says that skills require training and therefore an instructor, but knowledge requires education, which a person can acquire on his/her own.

I have taken the nitrox class, and have a hard time finding a hole in his argument.

Comments?

 

[djkpsu]

Even if you read all of the materials and think you understand the information, without proper instruction you won't know if you are right or not. And could lead do some very dangerous situtions.

If he wants to self study thats ok, but I think he should still go at least take the test with a proper instructor. I don't think it's worth risking your life to save a hundred bucks or so.

Even if you can recite the book front to back doesn't mean that you understand the concepts.

 

[kidspot]

as one who recently did the same thing as your friend Rick, I don't have a problem with it... though I can't get refills around here without the card, so I fill my own. The lds knows and has no problem topping off my tanks for me.

djkpsu: What concept is so difficult to understand? I write my own tables based on EAD and double check my math against standard published data. The only two calculations that are imperative are really your MOD (based on a PO2 of 1.4) and EAD... neither of which are all that difficult to figure out (coming from someone who never went beyond basic algebra) so what else is necessary to understand?

Sorry, but till I need someone else to fill my tanks I can't see paying $259 to learn to breathe again...

 

[CIBDiving]

I got no problem with it.
It's only in the last few years that Oxtox has really been part of the course, and I'v always felt that was included only to justify telling people they had to get a ( far to expensive) card to get a fill.

 

[bwh6]

After tonight's dive, one of the divers told me he is going to self-certify himself for Nitrox.

His plan is to read the Nitrox manual and be sure he understands it completely, easily answering all the questions at the end of each chapter. He'll get himself a set of tables and buy some nitrox tank stickers online.

He already owns a nitrox computer.

He has been told that, with the stickers on his tanks, most shops won't ask for a N-card. He's right about that.

He says that nitrox diving is not a skill, but knowledge. He says that skills require training and therefore an instructor, but knowledge requires education, which a person can acquire on his/her own.

I have taken the nitrox class, and have a hard time finding a hole in his argument.

Comments?

I agree with his justification, but the approach to getting fills stinks of deception. He should talk to the shop beforehand if he wants them to fill his tanks (he seems smart /experienced enough to have a good LDS relationship. Does he need to clean his tanks?) Also, every time I've used Nitrox on a trip I've needed my card.

Brian

 

[djkpsu]

djkpsu: What concept is so difficult to understand? I write my own tables based on EAD and double check my math against standard published data. The only two calculations that are imperative are really your MOD (based on a PO2 of 1.4) and EAD... neither of which are all that difficult to figure out (coming from someone who never went beyond basic algebra) so what else is necessary to understand? breathe again...

I am not saying it can't be done, but its kind of like having someone esle proof read something you have written. There is always a chance that you will read things the way you think have written, but might be reading in words that aren't really there.

I would just like to have validation that I do actually know what I think I know. Thats all I am saying, and $259 doesn't seem like much money when you life is involved.

 

[AndyNZ]

<snip> (he seems smart /experienced enough to have a good LDS relationship<snip>

Certainly in my experience, if you put a helping hand in and around your LDS - answering the phone when everyone is busy, filling tanks and that kind of thing.... then you normally get payback, so most of the instructors who work there will talk me through a course outline, lend me the manual, mix my training dives in with something else when they are getting paid and then only charge the certification cost.

Works for me!

I'm amazed if you can get fills without a nitrox cert card.... you've gotta wonder about the state of the filters on their compressor etc. if they're slack on one thing, why not be slack on another??

 

[lamont]

After tonight's dive, one of the divers told me he is going to self-certify himself for Nitrox.

His plan is to read the Nitrox manual and be sure he understands it completely, easily answering all the questions at the end of each chapter. He'll get himself a set of tables and buy some nitrox tank stickers online.

He already owns a nitrox computer.

He has been told that, with the stickers on his tanks, most shops won't ask for a N-card. He's right about that.

He says that nitrox diving is not a skill, but knowledge. He says that skills require training and therefore an instructor, but knowledge requires education, which a person can acquire on his/her own.

I have taken the nitrox class, and have a hard time finding a hole in his argument.

Comments?

There's nothing difficult to understand in the nitrox material from any of the RSTC agencies. I'd suggest he take the $250 that he saves and use some of that to buy the GUE intro to tech diving PDF book, and he'll be much better off than anyone who graduates from one of the RSTC classes. If he can find an instructor that will actually teach in-water oxtox skills, that would be worth it.

Nothing in the agency standards from any of the RSTC courses was something that I needed to learn by the time I took a nitrox course. And I really didn't need the graphic aids to help me learn how to multiply and divide.

 

[lamont]

I'm amazed if you can get fills without a nitrox cert card.... you've gotta wonder about the state of the filters on their compressor etc. if they're slack on one thing, why not be slack on another??

I've checked out the analysis done on the air of both of the dives shops I go to that have never asked me for a nitrox card. Both of them are good and exceed standards. Never seen anything about how they run their compressors to make me raise my eyebrows either...

 

[Rick Inman]

djkpsu: What concept is so difficult to understand? I write my own tables based on EAD and double check my math against standard published data. The only two calculations that are imperative are really your MOD (based on a PO2 of 1.4) and EAD... neither of which are all that difficult to figure out (coming from someone who never went beyond basic algebra) so what else is necessary to understand?

That's more than some divers know who have taken the class, have the card, have forgotten everything and just follow their computers (not talking about anybody on this board, of course ).