Nitrox??? Really???

[Sharky1948]

Heh...the same bunch of people who want a gauge without computer functions, perhaps?

And then we strap on an argon inflation bottle to compensate for the lack of computer functions!

 

[Racket]

OK, so here it is. It's a cultural difference. I come here from the Caribbean where dive shops dive. Diving here is gear intensive so that's where everyone's focus is. I don't care about a stupid computer. I'm going to paste in a piece from an article that may help. It talks a little about ideal weight and about how in the rest of the world, people that are out of shape would be excluded from diving. That is a practice implemented by the dive shops, instructors, and the industry.
May 3, 2007
Ideal Body Weight for Diving, Scuba Calories
Filed under: Interesting News — scubadoc @ 2:14 pm


In response to a question about diving and obesity - here is an answer giving the ideal body weight for diving:

Edmonds, in the book, Diving and Subaquatic Medicine, states that weight should be less than 20 % above the average ideal weight for age, height and build. Obesity is undesirable because it increases the risk of decompression illness, there being an increase in nitrogen absorption of 4.5 times in fat. Sport diving is more lenient than commercial in this regard in that the bottom times can be reduced according to the percentage that the candidate’s weight exceeds that expected for height and build.

Body mass index (BMI) is a method for determining the percentage of fat. It is determined by weight in Kg divided by height in meters squared.

In some areas of the world where medical fitness is more stringently regulated than the US, a high BMI (body mass index) would deter one from diving. Complicating conditions of adiposity include diabetes mellitus, dyslipidemia or hypertension and their associations with coronary artery disease. The BMI is important to divers due to the fact that people with high BMI are more prone to coronary artery disease and an untoward coronary event while diving. A BMI above 30 kg/m2 is thought to be excessively risky for diving. Of course, measured %BF can sometimes show that the diver is quite large and muscular and this needs to be taken into consideration. Figure your BMI by going to this web site:
http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm

What exaclty does this have to do w/ a computer? I agree that there are way too many overweight divers. Many of them are better divers than I am, so who am I to judge?

 

[Soggy]

What exaclty does this have to do w/ a computer? I agree that there are way too many overweight divers. Many of them are better divers than I am, so who am I to judge?

Obesity is a major contributor to DCS

But, you're right, the post was way out of context.

 

[mhedman]

Hardly, re-read the original. The point is that dive shops are pushing stuff we don't need while ignoring those we do. Of course as long as people will pay why would they do otherwise? And as long as you can get people to sign waivers, sign em' up and sell them some gear.

 

[Gdog]

Having worked in retail sales for the last 25 years, and in a management position, I learned a long time ago, it isnt so much as what you say, as it is the manner in which you say it...meaning....selling is conveying your meaning or your point to the person you are directing it to in a manner which interests them, intriques (sp) them, and persuades them to see your point of view. It sounds like this particular salesperson failed miserably. Doesnt matter that what she was possibly trying to convey was accurate or not, it is how it was how she delivered it that is at the heart. It sounds like most of us agree with her, however...she simply sucked at selling why the nitrox/air computer was the best choice. A good salesman/woman never says NO......but she walked this guy. Which makes it twice as hard for the next guy to do the job right, and that is to convince mhedman that currently, the best choice is the nitrox/air computer. My wife dives only air...with an Atmos Aeris AI........but again..this is just my two bits...!!

 

[Marek K]

I realize this thread is about LDSs pushing equipment and about the LDS's condescension... but to shift just slightly, I don't see anything wrong with mhedman wanting an air-only computer if he doesn't see nitrox in his future.

I disagree that there's not a significant price difference between entry-level air and nitrox computers. An Oceanic or Aeris nitrox computer can't be found for much less than about $250 (and, with the reports that LeisurePro are becoming an authorized Oceanic dealer, the available prices all over are going to go up fast), while -- a year or two, anyway -- you could find an air-only Veo 100 for about $100. I'll bet you still could, on e-bay. A 250% difference isn't insignificant, especially if you've got a budget or are also buying other equipment.

It does look like air-only computers are going the way of the horse-collar BC, but that doesn't make them bad... only harder to find if you want them.

Um, on the other hand, we just replaced three of the family's air-only computers (Oceanic Veo 100 and Aeris Atmos 2) with their nitrox counterparts.... because we do want to use nitrox. I don't regret having had the air computers; our under-15 daughter still does.

I'd *ahem* be willing to part with at least some of the air computers for a very reasonable price...

--Marek

 

[Azza]

Who gives a ****. If you know what you want then tell them. It's a retail store...they sell stuff for money...just like you and I go to work everyday so we can pay the bills and go diving...harden up.

 

[Racket]

. A 250% difference isn't insignificant, especially if you've got a budget or are also buying other equipment.

--Marek

Yes, but you are comparing outdated, internet auction prices to an LDS. The gap between an air only and air/nitrox would be much smaller at an LDS.

Reguardless, why would we expect someone paid a few dollars an hour at a diveshop to be some super sales person. It's not like they are selling jewelry at tiffany's.

 

[Marek K]

Yes, but you are comparing outdated, internet auction prices to an LDS. The gap between an air only and air/nitrox would be much smaller at an LDS.

Well, the close-to-$100 price just over a year ago was a closeout price from an authorized on-line merchant for the Oceanic Veo 100. And the $250 price was for low-end hockey-puck Oceanic and Aeris nitrox computers, also offered on-line at the same time by (mostly) authorized merchants -- but LP were also in the same ballpark, if I remember.

The technology in the Veo 100 is pretty much identical to that in the current hockey-puck nitrox computers from Oceanic or Aeris. Just fewer bells and whistles, and of course no nitrox capability. Which, if people are on a really tight budget and don't see nitrox in their near future, would be perfectly fine. At that price.

You may be right about the price difference at an LDS, at least percentage-wise. Though I suspect the LDS prices for both types of computers would (or would have been) significantly higher, and the absolute difference might have been similar.

I don't want to start another flame war, but I consider the Internet to a good indicator of the market in things like this.

--Marek

 

[RSdiver]

1) Oxygen is not flammable and is only toxic when breathed at partial pressures and elapased times which exceed CNS tox or full body (pulmonary) tox limits. As already pointed out, air is EAN 21.

2) The best prevention against DCI is proper hydration while diving within table or computer limits. Yes, fat tissue absorbed nitrogen more readily than many tissues; but, other variables are more highly associated with DCI.

This sounds more like a rant against an individual (the sales person) than an informed opinion about Nitrox.

Just my 2 cents.

+1
Lots emotion, not an especially rational discussion.

I went to a local shop today...snip!...
Oxygen is a flammable and toxic substance. What happens when Ooops, you discover you've gone a little too deep? Are the shops really worried about safety? .
The best prevention against getting the bends is not being Fat.
Or carrying too much gear (heavens). I don't see any of the shops telling people they need to get in shape! Hell NO!
...snip!...

I thought the best prevention from DCS was to hydrate before a dive...
There are people who appear fat yet are actully in shape.