Nitrox makers compared

[scubapanama]

We're looking for a nitrox maker system (2 actually for redundancy) on a liveaboard to serve up to 24 divers, 4 times a day.

Space in not a problem. Neither is power. HOwever, since we don't always need full capacity and have enough space for serious cascade storage system , we don't mind if our compressors occasionally have to run 6-8 hours in a 24-hr period to meet (top) demand.

We're only looking at membrane systems for safety and practical reasons and also prefer to stick with German-made stuff for reliability reasons.

For yachts and liveaboards we basically have seen the following (membrane) solutions:

• Bauer + Bauer nitrox system
• Bauer with "Nitrox" Bob Olsen water cooled heads (factory approved modification) (they don't specify which low pressure compressor they use on their website)
• Brownie's with standard Bauer or with modified 'yacht' HP compressor + Kaeser LP screw compressors

So I started digging a little deeper because surely there must be other manufacturers that make compressors that can pump nitrox off-the shelve. I found a few but the only one that offers equipment for small capacity's like on a yacht is German L&W compressors (not offered in the US but widely available all over the world).

If anybody has experience with the above systems, particularly on a (tropical) diving liveaboard, I'd love to hear from you. Comments on things like dealer support are also very welcome.

Suggestions are also welcome of course.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

Thorwald

 

[CraigAClark]

I'm not familiar with the Bauer nitrox unit as they are not sold in the US. I have used Bob's equipment. The water-cooling really does a great job, especially if you have a chilled water supply! But even with his seawater heat exchangers it works great. If you ask him nicely, he can provide a Kaeser as L.P. supply.

Brownies is in the yachting industry, which equals big $$$$$$. Even if you choose to go with a stock Bauer, expect to pay close to 3x's more. I was in that business until earlier this year (9.5 years) with NUS, Inc and prior to that for Brownies (8 years). I don't believe they offer water cooling.

Another option would be Nuvair.

Craig

 

[scubapanama]

Thanks for the feedback Craig,

I really like the idea of Bob's system and we have chilled water too. My only concern is that we usually prefer to work with standard 'off-she-shelve' items so I don't have a vendor lock-in situation where only one party can supply the parts I need. Brownies indeed seems to focus on clients who don't pay the bills themselves although they offer a good technical solution too that doesn't need water cooling.

I'll keep you posted on what I find out.

 

[rigdiver]

Contact Wookie aka Capt. Frank of the MV Spree on this and other boards. He's been there/done that since way back.

 

[Nitroxrolf]

Dear Craig,
my name is Rolf and the MD of Aaragon Pte Ltd and we are a manufacturer of Nitrox membrane system. We have sold over 70 units in several sizes mainly in Asia and our systems are very reliable.
Our systems are German engineering and to prove our quality, we have certified our Systems by German TUV. As you are looking into LW Nitrox system, please visit the website from LW Asia (w.lw @ .com.sg) as they sell our systems! Why? Because, our systems are made for the very hot and humid weather. Our prices are very competitive, but we use only well known brands like Compair (Screw Compressor) / Parker/ Festo and all our Fittings and valves are made in stainless steel to guarantee a long and reliable operation.
If you want, we give you our customer list and you can choose one of them to call and ask about our system!
Unfortunately, we just redesign our website and the new one will be placed in 2 weeks. But if you want, please sent us an email to rogasi@gmx.com and we will forward you all details and pictures.
As you ask also for comments from dealer support, we will give you our comments to our competitor:
Bauer: Very sophisticated and on the technical side the best. However, there is too much electronic which cause problems especially in humid and salted air. The system is good for resorts but not for liveaboards. Price is quite high.
Bob Olsen: Good system, use good parts, but too expensive.

For high pressure compressors, nothing else then Bauer!

Thank you and we hope to hear from you soon.

Best regards,
Rolf

 

[Nitroxrolf]

Forgotten to say, the email address rogasi@gmx.com is only temporarily, we have a proper email address but want not to publish them in forums as we are worried about spam. You will get a reply with a Aaragon email address.

Or send us a PM from the forum

Thanks and regards,
Rolf

 

[scubapanama]

Dear Rolf,

And these L&W HP compressors, they can deal with Nitrox without any trouble? Provided there is good ventilation?

Thorwald

 

[Nitroxrolf]

Dear Thorwald,

Do you want only a Nitrox system or a complete set inclusive high pressure compressor?

Bauer, LW, Coltri can handle Nitrox up to 40%, but you have to use Synthetic Oil and the location must be proper ventilated. For LW compressors, the bigger range 450 liter above are quite good. The smaller ones are made by Schifauer (Czechs republic), LW label it only “Made in Germany” here the link w.schifauer.cz

If you buy LW then you get problem with spare parts etc., you are in Panama, right?

Maybe you sent me a email, do you registered with skype? If yes, sent me your name and I will contact you.

Thank you and best regards,
Rolf

 

[iain/hsm]

Thorwald.

In a word it’s all in the letter P, “quote”:

“With gas production manufacturing and dispensing a planned approach is from the point and position of Production Performance and Product. For diving and breathing gas applications in addition consider points of Purity, Power and Pressure. © HSM Engineering Technology Ltd

As you are on a yacht the basic questions are:

1. How much power is available on board and how much can you spare.
2. How many cylinders do you wish to fill.
3. How long have you got to fill them. (surface interval, HP bank size etc)
4. How many daily fills required. (Full each night for next day, night dives?)
5. To what pressure (full) and from what pressure (empty)

Application and considerations are next is it a commercial diving application or a pleasure yacht, with considerations of plant running and guest disturbance.

There are over 40 manufactures of membranes you could use however the purity and efficiency of these products should also be considered. While some vendors will imply a better performance based on less feed air required to produce so less Kw of power. There purity is impaired. Others require pre membrane gas heating to improve purity again costing Kw of power lost but the purity of the product and relability is paramont


If you are outside of the normal global support service and repair fields I would suggest commercial vendors with industrial products you can service yourself.
This market is much bigger than scuba diving so I would respectfully suggest looking away from the intermittent duty scuba vendors as they offer such a limited reliability product in this application.

One final point, safety and purity are paramount. IMHO consider an industrial 24/7 continuous duty compressor. Have it tested and certified with 50% or even 60% oxygen for safety, and a membrane that doesn’t produce twice the allowable amount of C02 as all of the scuba products that have been suggested so far do.
Iain Middlebrook.

 

[DiveTheGalapagos]

Thorwald.

As you are on a yacht the basic questions are:

1. How much power is available on board and how much can you spare.
2. How many cylinders do you wish to fill.
3. How long have you got to fill them. (surface interval, HP bank size etc)
4. How many daily fills required. (Full each night for next day, night dives?)
5. To what pressure (full) and from what pressure (empty)

Application and considerations are next is it a commercial diving application or a pleasure yacht, with considerations of plant running and guest disturbance.

So, if the following are the answers:

1. TBD
2. 18
3. 120 minutes primarily during surface intervals though no night dives.
4. Up to 72 per day
5. To 3000 psi from 500 psi (I would hope)

Dive live-aboard so guest disturbance an issue at night. 2 compressors for redundancy. Do 3 smaller make any sense? Can 3 share 1 Nitrox package like 2 can?

Like Panama, service/distance from service centers also an issue. Beyond Bauer/Brownie, who would you recommend getting quotes from? Which system is going to endure best in humidity/salt air?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.