Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[Dragon2115]

But your argument is flawed Andy. If a diver can dive safely on nitrox without knowing anything of the math or tables then they can also do so right from the start on air. Where's the differrence? In both cases the student has learned to push the appropiate buttons and then do what the computer tells them to do afterwards. Neither has any understanding of what's going on beyond that point.

 

[H2Andy]

But your argument is flawed Andy. If a diver can dive safely
on nitrox without knowing anything of the math or tables then they can also do so
right from the start on air.

yes, of course. that's not the issue.

the issue is teaching a student more than one way of doing something
from the start. they can then chose as their needs dictate later.

you're forgetting that Nitrox is an optional class, and the option is
there to take a table-only class or a computer-only class.

 

[Swan1172]

so you guys keep saying, yet you don't show a single bit of evidence.

i know what a MOD is. i know how to figure it out using my computer.

i now know the max depth for my dive.

i then check the NDL for that depth using my computer.

I now know the max time at that depth.

i am ready to go diving using my computer. my dive plan is simple,
but safe: dive to 70 feet for no more than 40 minutes.

on my second dive, i will check my O2 clock on my computer
and make sure i'm still ok (99% of the frigging time i'll be ok)

what have i missed because i don't understand the math?

bottom line is, you can be an active diver using a coimputer,
and you can be a passive diver blidnly following the math and tables.

your tool doesn't make you active or passive. it's what yuou do with it.

Just because your dive computer says everything is OK does not necessarily mean that it is. No dive computer is perfect, and they get recalled all the time for various glitches. You need to understand what looks right and what doesn't. If you entered 2 + 2 on your calculator and got an answer of 5, you would know something was wrong. If you don't understand some simple dive math, there is no way to double-check what your computer is telling you. Having blind faith in your computer can have some dire consequences.

The companies that make dive computers understand that, because they put disclaimers all over the place in their manuals. Here is one from Suunto:

! WARNING !

USE BACK-UP INSTRUMENTS!

Make certain that you use back-up instrumentation including a depth gauge, submersible pressure gauge, timer or watch, and have access to decompression tables whenever diving with the FAVOR.

Obviously, they expect you to be able to use tables if you are going to dive with a computer.

 

[Soggy]

...like a record baby, right round round round...

 

[Dragon2115]

the issue is teaching a student more than one way of doing something
from the start.

Exactly, and imo that includes the nitrox class.

I don't support teaching kids math using calculators either. I believe they must first master the basic skills and show proficiency. After that they are free to use a calculator if they prefer. Same for nitrox, teach the student the proper way and then let them use a computer afterward if they choose to. I see no reason to short circuit the process. As I said before, it's already a half day class, why do we feel the need to dumb it down even more?

 

[TCDiver1]

Man, all these years using a dive computer and i didn't know i was cheating death on a regular basis. Well, i guess it stands to reason, since my brain's all rotted out from steady computer use.

 

[Swan1172]

Man, all these years using a dive computer and i didn't know i was cheating death on a regular basis. Well, i guess it stands to reason, since my brain's all rotted out from steady computer use.

Do you make any provisions in case your computer fails, or do you just assume that it won't?

 

[H2Andy]

Obviously, they expect you to be able to use tables if you are going to dive with a computer.

obviously they have legal departments that make them put all sorts of disclaimers
on their products in case some idiot sues.

do you really expect someone to swallow those little fluffy things they sell for
padding? why put a label on them that says "do not swallow?"

legal departments, baby

now, back to whether diving nitrox with only a computer is safe or not.

basically your argument is "computers are not perfect; some break."

same goes for watches and depth gauges. if you are following tables, you still
need a watch and a depth gauge, and they can break or run out of
batteries, just like a computer can.

that means, using your logic, that diving tables is not safe.

 

[H2Andy]

Do you make any provisions in case your computer fails, or do
you just assume that it won't?

my back-up plan is simple: in case of computer failure, terminate dive inmmediatly
and ascend slowly.


end of story. and safe.

 

[H2Andy]

As I said before, it's already a half day class, why do we feel the need to dumb it down even more?

you keep switching issues on me.

diving nitrox on a computer is just as safe as diving with tables or the math.

show me how that is not true.

so far, not one of you guys can show me that. you just keep shifting the argument
to other areas.