Nitrox cert company,

[tursiops]

If someone was to provide their own nitrox course without being affiliated to a training agency would it be accepted on its merits or rejected because they don’t belong to the in crowd?

Read the attachment in post #35. To be accepted, you'd need to be able to show your educational validity, your quality management processes and how you handle liability. And the best-practices on Nitrox instruction require some hands-on time with an instructor and O2 analyzer. This is not a PADI statement, it is a WRSTC statement.

 

[MargaritaMike]

I am, for the purpose of this posting, totally neutral on the acceptability of SDA or any other course taught online. While I as an individual prefer book learning as opposed to those new-fangled online thingys, if an online course can be accepted with proper verification of knowledge learned, then in my way of thinking the verification of knowledge is what produces the certification. As an example only, let's say that I produce an online syllabus, which covers every aspect of knowledge necessary to pass any agency's verification process, then why shouldn't I, as an individual, be able to present that knowledge base to anyone. All the while saying that the student must get his understanding verified. I would not issue a c-card. While I think I should be able to do this, I don't see any financial advantage to the student because I would charge and the verifying agency instructor would charge for his time in verifying ability to check tanks and determine MOD and other related acronyms. However, if someone wants to pay the price and learn online from ANY source then I believe their efforts should be recognized and accepted UNTIL such time the student cannot demonstrate the absorption and understanding of the online material.

While I'm not an instructor, I am confident that I could put together a course which would contain all of the information necessary to learn and understand the information surrounding Enriched Air and possibly other courses. It's not rocket science. Granted there would be no "quality" control, but I am not sure that quality control is all that the major agencies are complaining about.

Cheers - M²

 

[tursiops]

I am, for the purpose of this posting, totally neutral on the acceptability of SDA or any other course taught online. While I as an individual prefer book learning as opposed to those new-fangled online thingys, if an online course can be accepted with proper verification of knowledge learned, then in my way of thinking the verification of knowledge is what produces the certification. As an example only, let's say that I produce an online syllabus, which covers every aspect of knowledge necessary to pass any agency's verification process, then why shouldn't I, as an individual, be able to present that knowledge base to anyone. All the while saying that the student must get his understanding verified. I would not issue a c-card. While I think I should be able to do this, I don't see any financial advantage to the student because I would charge and the verifying agency instructor would charge for his time in verifying ability to check tanks and determine MOD and other related acronyms. However, if someone wants to pay the price and learn online from ANY source then I believe their efforts should be recognized and accepted UNTIL such time the student cannot demonstrate the absorption and understanding of the online material.

While I'm not an instructor, I am confident that I could put together a course which would contain all of the information necessary to learn and understand the information surrounding Enriched Air and possibly other courses. It's not rocket science. Granted there would be no "quality" control, but I am not sure that quality control is all that the major agencies are complaining about.

Cheers - M²

This, and many other posts, seem to be missing the point entirely.
Of course the relevant information can be imparted on-line!

But where a lot of divers fail is in the hands-on part of analyzing a tank. They turn the gas on too fast, they don't have a good seal to the valve face, they calibrate poorly if at all, they log ineptly. It's maybe a little bit like learning to play the piano, or shoot a rifle, or play basketball, or skin a cat. You can read about it all you want, and take knowledge tests all you want, but actually doing it is another matter. it takes feedback, correction, and practice.

I watched a couple in Bonaire put their Nitrox tanks at the analyzer and attach the yokes for analysis. The guy asked the lady, "what percentage do you want?" She said, "we're not going that deep, let's use 36%." He then turned the calibration knob on the analyzer until it read 36% for her tank, did the same for his, they logged it carefully, and off they went.

I'll bet they passed their on-line course just fine.

 

[boulderjohn]

Why? It takes a fair amount to be expelled.

How would I know why NAUI expelled him? All hey say is that he was expelled.

 

[MargaritaMike]

But where a lot of divers fail is in the hands-on part of analyzing a tank. They turn the gas on too fast, they don't have a good seal to the valve face, they calibrate poorly if at all, they log ineptly. It's maybe a little bit like learning to play the piano, or shoot a rifle, or play basketball, or skin a cat. You can read about it all you want, and take knowledge tests all you want, but actually doing it is another matter. it takes feedback, correction, and practice.

When reading my post you obviously missed the part where I stated "in my way of thinking the verification of knowledge is what produces the certification" and "All the while saying that the student must get his understanding verified." and "and the verifying agency instructor would charge for his time in verifying ability to check tanks and determine MOD and other related acronyms"

Cheers - M²

 

[tursiops]

When reading my post you obviously missed the part where I stated "in my way of thinking the verification of knowledge is what produces the certification" and "All the while saying that the student must get his understanding verified." and "and the verifying agency instructor would charge for his time in verifying ability to check tanks and determine MOD and other related acronyms"

Cheers - M²

How do you verify online if someone has the flow rate too high into the analyzer? Yes, I saw all that in your post, but see no way to do it via an online course.

 

[MargaritaMike]

I didn't say you have it verified online. How can a verifying person "see" if someone knows how to check a tank online. While checking the tank, does the student know how to compute MOD and how to label the tank? The verification in NOT online. After that, the diver is on his own.

Not related to NITROX: What if an OW student memorizes the text book, aces the test, knows enough about diving to clear their mask, and buddy breathe, and a few other skills, what's to say they know how to go diving in open water? The basic skills demonstrated during a class does not necessarily carry forward. Just as in the example above where the couple "dialed in" the percentage of EANx they were using. People can be stoopid sometimes without any logical reason.

My point is that the online course material is not what gets the student certified. It's the verification of the knowledge where the certification should occur. AND if I put together an online course, then if one of my "students" can demonstrate that I "taught" them well, they should get a c-card.

Cheers - M²

 

[ljpm]

But where a lot of divers fail is in the hands-on part of analyzing a tank. They turn the gas on too fast, they don't have a good seal to the valve face, they calibrate poorly if at all, they log ineptly. It's maybe a little bit like learning to play the piano, or shoot a rifle, or play basketball, or skin a cat. You can read about it all you want, and take knowledge tests all you want, but actually doing it is another matter. it takes feedback, correction, and practice.

"a little like playing the piano"?? Sorry but it's not rocket science. Watch a youtube video. I was shown once. I repeated it without a problem. I really have to ask, how stupid is the average scuba diver if this is considered challenging.

 

[tursiops]

"a little like playing the piano"?? Sorry but it's not rocket science. Watch a youtube video. I was shown once. I repeated it without a problem. I really have to ask, how stupid is the average scuba diver if this is considered challenging.

Do you think you could have done it as well if you had not been "shown once" how to do it? What if you had repeated it but with a problem? Courses are not designed for the super people like yourself, they are designed for normal people, who sometimes do not do things perfectly. they need to dive safely too. It is not all about you, dude.

 

[tursiops]

My point is that the online course material is not what gets the student certified. It's the verification of the knowledge where the certification should occur.

We agree completely.
The argument in this thread is why can't the Nitrox course be ONLY on-line.
You and I say it cannot, because someone has to verify your skills as well as your knowledge.