Nitrox cert by correspondence or online?

[HowardE]

Blackwood... Don't get me wrong... Read my other posts... I AM an advocate for more stringent standards, especially with AOW courses. My point is that the NITROX course is NOT one of those situations. The MOD is not "SET IN STONE" can some people tolerate 1.6 ppo2? YES. It's relative to an individual, so there would be no grounds for failure based on exceeding MOD. Someone (in theory) could go into convulsions at 1.2 ppo2, so their personal MOD would be much less than the 1.4 declared by PADI.

Nitrox is SIMPLE to learn, and use, and shouldn't be made more complicated than it is. If you know how to read an SPG, know how to analyze your mix, and know how to plan your dive, that's all you need to know for diving nitrox. It's not rocket science, it's just oxygen enriched air.

For the record. I did a PADI nitrox course, and completed the required dives. If people ask me what to do, I recommend going to the place that I went, because the nitrox course only cost $85 plus the dive ($65) = $150 for the first person, and $125 for additional in the group. It's a GOOD deal, and the diving (where I went) is on a reef in the ocean... GREAT! Nice dive, do nitrox, stay down longer than I did on air. WOW.

 

[Blackwood]

Blackwood... Don't get me wrong... Read my other posts... I AM an advocate for more stringent standards, especially with AOW courses. My point is that the NITROX course is NOT one of those situations.

I think nitrox is an extremely appropriate course to implement stringent standards -even more so than AOW because of the increased risks. Taking a student out on a Fish ID dive as part of AOW would be one thing. But we're talking about an extreme change in depth limitations, and thus a heightened requirement for overall awareness.

Personally, I think the standards should be higher for basic OW. I'm applying them to nitrox because, at that point, it's too late.

The MOD is not "SET IN STONE" can some people tolerate 1.6 ppo2? YES. It's relative to an individual, so there would be no grounds for failure based on exceeding MOD. Someone (in theory) could go into convulsions at 1.2 ppo2, so their personal MOD would be much less than the 1.4 declared by PADI.

But neither are NDLs set in stone. Some people will get bent diving conservatively. Some people can exceed NDLs with no adverse effects. Would you say there are no grounds for failing a student who exceeds NDLs on a recreational checkout dive?

 

[HowardE]

The problem with your first part of the Nitrox course being more stringent than AOW? Why? Nitrox can be taken prior to AOW. Again... The purpose of the nitrox course is to teach the diver how to use and plan dives using enriched air. That's it. You're making this way too complicated.

Are there no grounds for failing a student who exceeds the NDL's on a checkout dive? Considering that on a checkout dive the instructor actually has a mission plan, and SHOULD be monitoring their basic skills, I would say that if someone COULD actually exceed the NDL on a checkout dive that they should fail the OW, because that is not following the dive plan, therefore they are not prepared to be a diver.

The original purpose of this thread is the nitrox online course, which IMO is not a great idea. I think an instructor should administer a test, as a proctor, if you get questions wrong, they should review your mistakes. The instructor should help you if you need help in the gas analysis, and then they should dive with you as required. Nitrox is EASY. AOW SHOULD be HARD it's called ADVANCED. Now for Advanced Nitrox (>40%), that is another story entirely. For recreational Nitrox use <40% I see no reason to make it tougher. I learned ALL of the risks, and learned how to plan my dives.

Nitrox is applied knowledge and math... NOT a SKILL.

 

[*Floater*]

My point is that the NITROX course is NOT one of those situations. The MOD is not "SET IN STONE" can some people tolerate 1.6 ppo2? YES. It's relative to an individual, so there would be no grounds for failure based on exceeding MOD.

Actually I was cautioned not to believe in individual tolerance. In some tests the subject would develop oxtox symptoms within minutes on some days, but then take several hours to develop them on other days. You don't develop tolerance to it and personal limits are very difficult to determine because of the huge variance in the time it can take for symptons to set in from one day to the other. What I have read is that the 1.6 ppo2 limit is okay for for short dives under ideal conditions (warm water, effortless diving). The more demanding the dive, the lower ppo2 limit you should use.

 

[Blackwood]

The purpose of the nitrox course is to teach the diver how to use and plan dives using enriched air. That's it.

I think that possession of the skills necessary to safely dive nitrox should be requisite for certification.

if someone COULD actually exceed the NDL on a checkout dive that they should fail the OW, because that is not following the dive plan, therefore they are not prepared to be a diver.

Same goes for Nitrox. The MOD is part of the dive plan.

 

[Blackwood]

Actually I was cautioned not to believe in individual tolerance. In some tests the subject would develop oxtox symptoms within minutes on some days, but then take several hours to develop them on other days. You don't develop tolerance to it and personal limits are very difficult to determine because of the huge variance in the time it can take for symptons to set in from one day to the other. What I have read is that the 1.6 ppo2 limit is okay for for short dives under ideal conditions (warm water, effortless diving). The more demanding the dive, the lower ppo2 limit you should use.

You are correct in saying that you don't develop a tolerance, but tolerance most assuredly differs from person to person.

Navy divers, for example, must be able to tolerate at PO2 of 2.0 (for how long I don't know). Some can, others can't.

The same is true with nitrogen loading.

 

[HowardE]

I think the determination that the student possesses the skills to safely dive nitrox should be requisite.

Same goes for Nitrox. The MOD is part of the dive plan.

The operative word is SHOULD. I don't diagree with you. What SHOULD be and what IS are 2 different things.

 

[Blackwood]

The operative word is SHOULD. I don't diagree with you. What SHOULD be and what IS are 2 different things.

Well yah... I've been saying (or at least meaning) should all along!

 

[rainman_02]

I think that possession of the skills necessary to safely dive nitrox should be requisite for certification.




Same goes for Nitrox. The MOD is part of the dive plan.

Dude, you need to relax some. Nitrox is extremely easy to dive.

You also need to evaluate your examples. Someone spending 45 minutes at 100' has more to worry about than O2 tox. How about deco obligation due to diving past the NDL? The amount of air (or Nitrox) in their tank is probably not enough to stay at 100' for 45 minutes unless they have an extremely low SAC rate or they're diving with more than 80cf. Your examples are unrealistic, especially since someone who has had the course would know that the 1.4-1.6 ppO2 range is "for contingency purposes only."

 

[rainman_02]

To stay on the original topic:

As previously mentioned there's the PADI Online course and the NAUI Nitrox course that you get a referral to complete the dives under supervision at your resort / dive center of choice.

Either should be fine as long as you get some good hands on practice analyzing your tanks and calculating MOD, pO2, your O2 uptake, and so on under instructor supervision.