Nitrox cert by correspondence or online?

[MB]

1. Yah, I came back and re-phrased it.

However, on EAN40, NOAA gives you 45 minutes at 99FSW. Many people don't pay attention to anything but their air supply and nitrogen loading...


2. All I'm saying is this: diving with hyperoxic gasses necessitates a higher level of awareness than normoxic gasses. Were I a Nitrox instructor leading a student on a checkout dive and I felt that he was either unable to recognize the danger or was otherwise unable to help me out should I go clonic, I'd fail him.

I think we're seeing a very good example of some of the issues of learning comlpex and conditional information in the absence of good instruction. An extended 99' dive on 40% mix is one of the things an experinced instructor could cover. Lots of dicey issues on that profile alone.

Maybe the role of instructor for a course like this isn't clear - unlike 5th grade, a student who doesn't get it doesn't have to fail. Many instructors have a very low fail rate - they remediate and ultimately the student can pass because s/he learns.

 

[mnj1233]

Whether you think its ok or not is not the question here, does anyone know where it can be done? if so pony up

Always count on Gregoire to get a thread back on track!!!! Thanks for acknowledging the original post.

 

[*Floater*]

I can't go diving for the next three weeks because I'm on-call at work and my backup is out of the country. After that, I'm off on a diving vacation. I really want to get Nitrox certified before I go. Is it possible? Can I take a class online or by correspondence? A friend of mine loaned me the PADI video and I watched it ... it's pretty simple stuff. I know PADI requires a few dives to complete the cert though, so I won't be able to do the PADI course. I guess I could take it while on vacation, but if there's a way to do it beforehand, please let me know...

My searching isn't turning much up other than the TDI class, and there isn't a TDI shop convenient to me.

Thanks!

In an ealier a thread a scubaboard member (cerich) offered to teach NAUI's nitrox course via email/web. I don't know the member, so please do not interpret this as a recommendation, I'm just passing on the info. See the thread for details: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=111757&page=5

 

[Blackwood]

So, on that basis, you'd withhold Nitrox training from anyone below Rescue Diver level, as they are going to be unable to competently help someone suffering oxygen seizure?

No, I'd withhold certification from anyone who I judged, based on their dive performance/awareness during training, unfit to either breathe nitrox or dive with someone breathing nitrox.

OTOH, the deepest I went on my Nitrox course was 13m - not much worry about having to deal with O2 seizures there!

Of course, not. But I'm not expecting CNS tox during training. I'm considering "down the road."

 

[BarryNL]

No, I'd withhold certification from anyone who I judged, based on their dive performance/awareness during training, unfit to either breathe nitrox or dive with someone breathing nitrox.

So that basically means anyone not rescue trained. Bringing an unconscious (O2 toxed) diver to the surface safely and administering in-water artificial breathing if needed is hardly something any diver is likely to manage if they haven't been trained to do it.

 

[HowardE]

No, I'd withhold certification from anyone who I judged, based on their dive performance/awareness during training, unfit to either breathe nitrox or dive with someone breathing nitrox.

How can you be unfit to breathe nitrox? Is breathing nitrox from a cylinder different than breathing AIR from a cylinder?
What TRAINING is there on the checkout dive, other than the gas analysis? None that I can remember. There are NO SKILLS required to breathe, unless you don't have that involuntary response by your brain.

 

[Sideband]

No, I'd withhold certification from anyone who I judged, based on their dive performance/awareness during training, unfit to either breathe nitrox or dive with someone breathing nitrox.

I'm curious as to the certification required to dive with someone that is breathing Nitrox. The part about being, "unfit to breath Nitrox", has me a mite puzzeled as well.

Joe

 

[Blackwood]

How can you be unfit to breathe nitrox?

Someone who is unable to control or is unaware of their depth is unfit to dive period, but since I can’t de-certify them, my only recourse is to deem them unfit to dive nitrox (by withholding further certification).

I'm curious as to the certification required to dive with someone that is breathing Nitrox.

There is no certification required to dive with someone breathing nitrox.

But let’s say I’m taking a student out on a checkout dive. Say I signal to him “you lead, I’ll follow.” Say he gets in front and rarely (or never) looks back to see if I’m okay. In other words, he’s a bad buddy.

I’d rationalize that as follows: his buddy could take a severe CNS hit (even above MOD) and he’d probably never know. In other words, his buddy = dead.

So that basically means anyone not rescue trained.

A nitrox diver should be able to recognize a seizure and associated risks such as drowning and lung overexpansion injuries. A nitrox diver should be in the position to manage those risks (e.g. holding the tox’d diver’s second stage in his mouth and maintaining his depth until the seizures pass).

Basic OW courses give some lip service to buddy care. They teach how to use an octopus, how to help an OOA buddy ascend and inflate, etc.. Since nitrox is far less forgiving than air, nitrox courses should be much more stringent. They shouldn’t be treated like a specialty… an add on. They should drill buddy awareness/care into the sea floor.

I don’t run a certification agency, nor am I an instructor, but if I did or I were, that’s the way it would be.


/$0.02

 

[HowardE]

Someone who is unable to control or is unaware of their depth is unfit to dive period, but since I can’t de-certify them, my only recourse is to deem them unfit to dive nitrox (by withholding further certification).

I don't know which cert agency you're talking about, but I don't know of anyone failing the PADI nitrox course for lack of bouyancy control. It is NOT one of the topics covered. While I am NOT an instructor, as I understand it, the ONLY way to fail a PADI nitrox class is if you fail the written test (which was a VERY EASY test). If an instructor would like to correct me, please do so, but it seems to me that if you pay for the nitrox cert, you get one. Regardless of other factors which effect a diver in the water.

True, that someone who is unable to control themselves in the water shouldn't be certified and can't be de-certified. If you told me that I was "unfit" to dive nitrox, I would probably file a complaint against you as an instructor, because that is a load of you know what.

I don't think that the nitrox course is too easy, and I do think that the nitrox dives are superficial. You don't learn HOW to breathe and there are no required skills (PADI Nitrox course) in the water... Is it a way to help the dive shops make a little more money on offering the course? The course work in the nitrox class teaches you all that you need to know about diving nitrox. The dive is merely an experience that is chaperoned by an instructor. If you are a bad diver, should you not be allowed to dive nitrox? That is something that if it is to be decided, it will be decided by the cert agencies, not a field operative (instructor) who has his own opinion.

 

[Blackwood]

I don't know which cert agency you're talking about, but I don't know of anyone failing the PADI nitrox course for lack of bouyancy control.

IANTD has a watermanship evaluation sheet, but it isn't required. I don't offhand know of any certification agency that will fail you for lack of buoyancy control (maybe GUE?).

But the fact that they don't doesn't mean that they shouldn't...

In any case, I'm not just talking about buoyancy control. If we had an artificial MOD of 60', and a student accidentally hit 61', I wouldn't fail him. I'm talking about overall awareness.

True, that someone who is unable to control themselves in the water shouldn't be certified and can't be de-certified. If you told me that I was "unfit" to dive nitrox, I would probably file a complaint against you as an instructor, because that is a load of you know what.

It may be a load of isht with regards to you, but I’ve seen plenty of divers who qualify.

I wouldn’t just hand them an “F” and say “sorry.” I’d work with them on their skills. But I wouldn’t certify an incompetent diver. I’d much rather be a hated instructor than one who certified a guy who got himself killed.

there are no required skills (PADI Nitrox course) in the water...

No… but there SHOULD be. That’s what I’m saying.

If you are a bad diver, should you not be allowed to dive nitrox? That is something that if it is to be decided, it will be decided by the cert agencies, not a field operative (instructor) who has his own opinion.

Disagree. The agency isn’t out there diving with you, the instructor is.

Agencies routinely send out C-cards to horrible divers. I’ve seen a lot of PADI Master Divers who can’t hover.

I think (as do many people here) that the instructor is far more important than the agency that prints the card.