Nitrox 28 Uncertified

[H2Andy]

Using air tables and nitrox the chances of any dci are reduced significantly

and how did you know this?

 

[Kern]

Can't see a real danger to rec divers from pulmonary toxicity.

Could those who mentioned divers dyeing while using ppO₂ of 1.3 tell us how many documented cases there are & if this was proved as the cause of death?

 

[RikRaeder]

Wow. Too bad there isn't a Subex28 specialty. I'd love to break out one of those cards when getting a Nitrox fill.
'Just 28%, my good man....that's all I'm certified to.'

 

[fdog]

Elizabeth Anna Halbach

CNS Toxicity in closed-circuit oxygen diving


There are others but not quickly at hand.


I find it interesting that 15 years ago we were taught to limit ppO2 to less than 1.6, and the trend has been to decrease this over time. Heck, my 32% stage bottle is labeled "100". I plan working portions of the dive at 1.2. And, most oxtox convulsions happen without prior symptoms.

<shrugs> At least I have an understanding of what I'm getting into.


All the best, James

 

[Wayward Son]

I checked out the link...

It seems like a cheap, tacky marketing ploy, by an unregulated and extremely minor diving 'organization' (i.e. their organization is there own shops...with no external validation or control).

SUBEX Red Sea Diving Centers - The Art of Diving

It seems as though SUBEX is a diving company...and 'solitary' diving organization...setting it's own standards etc.
"Our Training Is Internationally Recognized"

By whom?

"Although we base SUBEX training on our own unique training concept, it is in conformity with all major standards, e.g. CMAS, SSI, PADI and NAUI."


With regards to the use of Nitrox - they are not conforming with industry standards or best practice...as appropriate training is required, covering gas analysis and dive planning.

"Since the start of the 2006 season, divers at all SUBEX bases have been treated to SUBEX's very own breathing gas: SUBEX air28."


Are they trying to 'copyright' a 28% mix as their invention, product or what?!?!?!?


Subex's very own??

SUBEX air28 is a light NITROX mixture containing 28% oxygen.

"This mix of air combines the advantages of 'NITROX diving' (32-36% oxygen) with the use of 'normal' diving air (containing 21% oxygen)."

'Light Nitrox'? ***?

1. Nitrox is nitrox - regardless of %.
2. Recreational Nitrox is anything 22-40% (not 32-36% as they state)

How does this 'light' nitrox combine any benefits of 'Nitrox Diving' and 'Air Diving'?

"However, the dive computer doesn't need to be switched to a NITROX mixture, but remains in the normal compressed air mode."

So, basically, they are just using Nitrox 28....and allowing customers to plan their dives as Air Dives...to enjoy slightly more conservative nitrogen uptake?

However, customers are not analysising their mixes, not being informed of maximum operating depths........


"For sport divers on holiday, these two measures taken by SUBEX have succeeded in 'squaring the circle'."




"No additional training or NITROX certificate is required to dive with SUBEX air28, since this air mixture does not take divers beyond the threshold past which holding a NITROX certificate is mandatory."

Yes, it does....with any other recreational diving agency in the world.

The threshold for nitrox training is 22% (i.e. anything greater than air).

28% has an MOD...like any mixture...and even though it coincides with the recreational maximum (28m/130ft)...divers still need to be educated about that.

Also, there are issues with pulmonary toxicity...and the dangers of not analysising/confirming the blend used....and fire hazards....

"The adoption of SUBEX air28 as its standard mix makes SUBEX the first dive operator in the world to launch a new product. Once again, SUBEX has broken down a barrier for the benefit of sport divers on vacation the whole world over."


This cheap, tacky marketing ploy makes me sick.


"Better than NITROX, better than a normal air mix", SUBEX air28 the air mixture with a future."




There is NOTHING new about using a mixture of 28% oxygen....or of using Nitrox whilst planning dives on air NDLs.

Attempting to claim 'ownership' of this concept is laughable.

In addition, claiming (falsely) that the use of 'light' nitrox does not require any training or education is contrary to the policies/standards/recommendations and/or best practice agreed by every other agency.

From what I read of this company...and their attitude towards marketing themselves...and their mis-representation of nitrox diving.... I would, personally, steer very very clear of these jokers.

that'sa the funniest damned thing I've read in a long time...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Elizabeth Anna Halbach

CNS Toxicity in closed-circuit oxygen diving


There are others but not quickly at hand.


I find it interesting that 15 years ago we were taught to limit ppO2 to less than 1.6, and the trend has been to decrease this over time. Heck, my 32% stage bottle is labeled "100". I plan working portions of the dive at 1.2. And, most oxtox convulsions happen without prior symptoms.

<shrugs> At least I have an understanding of what I'm getting into.


All the best, James

And Jeff Thompson was at 1.3 on open circuit in Ginnie Springs when he toxed and drowned. It has changed the way alot of divers are looking at MOD's and Po2 levels. I have misplaced the email I got concerning the incident. But it is looking like some people are more susceprible to OxTox hits and we don't know why or who. It only becomes apparent when it hits. We now mix for 1.3 max as opposed to the 1.4 we were doing.

And by the way I use 28% for some Lake Erie stuff but I dive it as 28% not air.

 

[DevonDiver]

Not read the rest of the thread - however - IF you are diving a site where there is a seabed within the MOD AND you are diving a single cylinder then why not - unless you are planning significant deco ( on a single?!) it's a safer gas - I've done exactly this with my kids, and would do it again

So...if someone went to this Subex place....and dived their Subex Air28 .... for 4 dives a day...repetitive diving in the 30-40m range....day after day for their diving holiday....

....then they only need to worry about their MOD?

....or maybe they need to understand cumulative %CNS also?

 

[Tigerman]

Wow. Too bad there isn't a Subex28 specialty. I'd love to break out one of those cards when getting a Nitrox fill.
'Just 28%, my good man....that's all I'm certified to.'

HAHAHA!! If it where I would take it just for the heck of it
But Ill rather take the nitrox course as soon as I get the chance..

 

[DevonDiver]

, it is still a safer gas than air

It is neither more or less safe.... it just poses different risks.

1. It reduces your nitrogen uptake.
2. If planned as air dives, provides a large amount of conservatism.
3. It has a max operating depth, that it is extremely unsafe to exceed.
4. Ox-Tox can occur within the MOD.
5. There is a cumulative %CNS loading that increases chance of Ox-Tox.
6. Most people forget the %CNS loading calculation, because it only figures on repetitive diving where you have higher PP02.
7. There are dangers with filling, storing and handling the tanks,
8. There is fire danger.
9. Some equipment (such as my Scubapro S600 Titanium regs) cannot be used with Nitrox because of fire/degredation risk.

 

[redacted]

So...if someone went to this Subex place....and dived their Subex Air28 .... for 4 dives a day...repetitive diving in the 30-40m range....day after day for their diving holiday....

....then they only need to worry about their MOD?

....or maybe they need to understand cumulative %CNS also?

I have not run the calculations but I suspect those dives will be NDL limited using air tables or computer. And they may also be NDL limited if calculated on EAN28, at least at the 30 meters.

OK, it looks like you would have to do about 10 such dives in one day to bust to cummulative O2 limits for a 24 hour period.