Nitrous Vs Nitrox

[Packhorse]

Ok all you petrol heads out there answer me this.
Can you use nitrox to make your car go faster in the same way Nitrous oxide does?
I cant see why not. There are a few diffrences of course.
What is nitrous oxide(n2o)? Its oxygen and nitrogen atoms joined in an atomic bond to create a Nitrous Oxide molecule. ( is that the correct terms?).
Nitrox on the other hand is just a mix of Oxygen and Nitrogen.
Nitrous oxide contains 36% oxygen. When heated to 572deg F nitrox oxide breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen or 36%Nitrox.
So assuming all that is correct then why not use Nitrox instead of Nitrous oxide?
There are a couple of reason i can think of.
1. At normal storage pressure (1200psi) Nitrous oxide is a liquid. My nitrous oxide bottle holds 10lbs (4.5 kgs). While my 3 times larger air tank holds about the same weight in air. So Nitrous has a space saving advantage.
2. Because Nitrous is a liquid at pressure is looses a lot of heat when released from pressure. This has a tremendous intercooling effect and is very good from a performance point of view. Nitrox will also drop in temp when released from pressure but not as much.

BUT

Nitrox is a hell of alot cheaper than Nitrous oxide. 10lbs of Nitrous oxide NZ$150. 10lbs of Nitrox $20.

So what do you think?
Is there something I am missing?
Now while on the subject. I have heard that Nitrogen narcosis feels like taking a hit of nitrous oxide. Anyone care to coment on that?
I have had a similar feeling when accending too fast. Like from 15m -12m. This obviously is not NN. Any idea what it is?

 

[dsteding]

Ok all you petrol heads out there answer me this.
Can you use nitrox to make your car go faster in the same way Nitrous oxide does?
I cant see why not. There are a few diffrences of course.
What is nitrous oxide(n2o)? Its oxygen and nitrogen atoms joined in an atomic bond to create a Nitrous Oxide molecule. ( is that the correct terms?).
Nitrox on the other hand is just a mix of Oxygen and Nitrogen.
Nitrous oxide contains 36% oxygen. When heated to 572deg F nitrox oxide breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen or 36%Nitrox.
So assuming all that is correct then why not use Nitrox instead of Nitrous oxide?
There are a couple of reason i can think of.
1. At normal storage pressure (1200psi) Nitrous oxide is a liquid. My nitrous oxide bottle holds 10lbs (4.5 kgs). While my 3 times larger air tank holds about the same weight in air. So Nitrous has a space saving advantage.
2. Because Nitrous is a liquid at pressure is looses a lot of heat when released from pressure. This has a tremendous intercooling effect and is very good from a performance point of view. Nitrox will also drop in temp when released from pressure but not as much.

BUT

Nitrox is a hell of alot cheaper than Nitrous oxide. 10lbs of Nitrous oxide NZ$150. 10lbs of Nitrox $20.

So what do you think?
Is there something I am missing?
Now while on the subject. I have heard that Nitrogen narcosis feels like taking a hit of nitrous oxide. Anyone care to coment on that?
I have had a similar feeling when accending too fast. Like from 15m -12m. This obviously is not NN. Any idea what it is?

Okay, regarding nitrous oxide (N2O) versus nitrogen (N2) we have different oxidation states, with the N2O being a N+, but the N in N2 gas, has a oxidation state of 0. Likewise, the oxygen in nitrous oxide is in a -2 oxidation state, where it is at 0 in oxygen (O2). Reason nitrous oxide works to make your car go faster is the redox reactions that occur in your car. The nitrous oxide is acting as an oxidizer in your combustion chamber (facilitating and accelerating combustion), and the decomposition of N2O at high temperatures is also an exothermic reaction (if I recall, which makes this a second source of energy). Faster burn, more energy released, faster car.

Nitrox, in contrast, is O2 and N2, at various mixes above 21% O2, and each element has a oxidation state of 0 in these forms. You cannot use nitrox for nitrous oxide in your car for the simple matter that you are not getting the oxidation and thermal decomposition benefits (in terms of energy) from a nitrogen/oxygen mixture that you get from nitrous oxide.

The reason nitrous oxide costs more is an energy issue, I bet. You are, in one sense, buying energy for your car by paying for that nitrous. It has to be produced from constituent gases that themselves need to be first oxidized and reduced, requiring energy, not simply compressed as with air or seperated from the atmosphere and mixed in different quantities as with nitrox.

I'll let someone else address the narcotic effects-and full disclaimer here-this is me sitting on my couch and is off the top of my head (although I studied a bit of science in a previous life).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Nitrous huh. Whippets are cool.

 

[Kwbyron]

wait....why would you burn the nitrox? like..on the way home from a dive you told your wife would take 2hrs and it's been 3? or..to get to the shop and back for a second tank?
actually, mr steding hit it pretty well on. NO2 is a compound (nitrogen cation bonded to two oxygen atoms), nitrox is a mixture. The energy comes from the breaking of the N-O bonds; however, you could get a boost in horse power from your nitrox mix in the same manor as a supercharger: you'd have a richer oxygen concentration in the cylinder, so a bigger bang with the spark, just not as much as with NO2.

 

[FIA-Sparki]

Nitrox is a hell of alot cheaper than Nitrous oxide. 10lbs of Nitrous oxide NZ$150. 10lbs of Nitrox $20.

Odd... Normally a refill for NOS is about $30 for a 10 lb tank "$3 per lb". Some places are pretty expensive. Here in ottawa we have a "Bruno's Perfomance" that does refills, and charges around $4 per lb.

Im not diver " yet " hehe, but i bet if you were to spray a nitrox mix into your engine, I can guarantee your asking for trouble :11ztongue

Nitrous is 1 part oxygen, bonded with 2 parts nitrogen. (N20)
When nitrous is introduced into the combustion chamber of the engine, it separates into nitrogen, and oxygen due to the heat of the engine "300C/570F". When the two elements separate, the nitrogen has a cooling effect which absorbes heat in the combustion chamber. The extra oxygen added from the Nitrous, allows for more fuel to be burned at one givin point in time, thus creating more pressure in the cylinder, forcing the piston down with more force.

A second bonus to "spraying" is when its sprayed in front of your intake, whether your engine be naturally aspired, or if you are using forced induction "Turbocharger / Supercharger". The cooling effect when the nitrous is vaporized from a high pressure "900 - 1050 PSI" to atmosphere, creates a more dense intake charge going into your enigne. The common boost that a turbo charger system creates is 6 - 8 PSI of -Boost- pressure in the intake manifold, * I've seen cars running 20 + psi of boost, these are NOT stock enignes * this alone forces more oxygen, but when cooled by the nitrous spray, you get a cool, dense, high pressure boost built up in the intake manifold.


Just as a side note, Spraying "using nitrous" will give you more bang for your buck, but the more effecient way to go is Spooling " Turbocharging ". A safe ammount of nitrous to use on a stock engine * new cars only * is a 30 - 45% shot of nitrous based on your engines HP output. If I have a 200 HP engine, a 30% shot of nitrous on my engine would be 60 HP and a 45% shot would be 90 HP.

For any other Tuners here, brake boost + Turbo + Intercooler + spraying when dropping the pedal to the floor, will kick you in the fannies pretty hard :11ztongue . Build and tune your motor well


Hmmm, I think I went a little off the track on that one :11ztongue

If you have troubles following my sentences, its ok, im not 100% mentally awake till another couple shots of caffeine.

FIA-Sparki

 

[lamont]

dsteading got the combustion physics exactly correct. i doubt nitrox would hurt your engine (don't sue me though if it does), it'll probably just be much less energetic than NOS.

around 300-400 fsw on air is roughly an anaesthetic dose of N2 and will be a lot like going under N2O at the doctors office. at 100 fsw its appx 1/4 of a dose and the effects are a little more subtle and a little more variable. i doubt the dose-response curve between 0 fsw and 400 fsw is linear, and at or beyond 100 fsw is where the effects really start to become apparent...

 

[Nova SS]

funniest dive I ever made !

 

[FIA-Sparki]

I envy you... There is no bottle in this world prettier then one with a sticker saying: "Nitrous".

What company is that from?

Zex?
Nitrous Express?

Or just a bottle with a sticker? :tongue:

 

[The Kraken]

Just lean out your fuel mixture and you'll achieve the same result as pumping enriched air (EAN) into the mix.

the K

 

[Packhorse]

I envy you... There is no bottle in this world prettier then one with a sticker saying: "Nitrous".

What company is that from?

Zex?
Nitrous Express?

Or just a bottle with a sticker? :tongue:

My guess would be NOS(nitrous oxide systems). I think its the N, the O and the S that gives it away.