Newbie U\W Photography thread

[Dee]

Ya know what? I totally forgot my 5050 had the histogram! Obviously I never used it! Thanks...

 

[hammerhead man]

Great thread!! Okay, here is my question, I understand how the camera displays the histogram and that ideally you want the histogram to not shift too far either left or right. However, in a point and shoot camera, how do you take into account the light that a strobe will emit that will cover the object of your picture. Should you adjust your histogram to show a shift to the dark side so that when the light from your strobe hits your subject it will ensure you get a great picture? I hope my question is clearly stated but I'm not sure.

Regards,

Bill

 

[Divernoob]

Great thread!! Okay, here is my question, I understand how the camera displays the histogram and that ideally you want the histogram to not shift too far either left or right. However, in a point and shoot camera, how do you take into account the light that a strobe will emit that will cover the object of your picture. Should you adjust your histogram to show a shift to the dark side so that when the light from your strobe hits your subject it will ensure you get a great picture? I hope my question is clearly stated but I'm not sure.

Regards,

Bill

I understood your question because I speak newb fluently. And that's all I speak. Good question. I was wonderin' the same thing .....

 

[Puffer Fish]

Great thread!! Okay, here is my question, I understand how the camera displays the histogram and that ideally you want the histogram to not shift too far either left or right. However, in a point and shoot camera, how do you take into account the light that a strobe will emit that will cover the object of your picture. Should you adjust your histogram to show a shift to the dark side so that when the light from your strobe hits your subject it will ensure you get a great picture? I hope my question is clearly stated but I'm not sure.

Regards,

Bill

Bill, First off, as far as the histogram goes, all that is really important is that it is not "clipped". That means all the data is there. If you see a bell shaped curve, with part if it cut off either light or dark, then you cannot correct the image, as the data is lost (0k, a little bit may still be there).

Regarding adding light via a strobe... it depends. If you are shooting in any form of TTL (automatic control), then the camera/strobe should figure it out. If you are shooting in manual, then you (the operator) have to a set the camera to have just the right amount of light when you include the strobe light.

How much is the right amount? Not so easy, as first it depends on how much outside light there is, and how much you want in the picture.

Suppose you want to see past the object you are taking a picture of, then you just need a small amount of extra light:

Not a great image, but it shows how it looks:

The above is just over 1 stops worth of light from the strobes.

But you may want to just see the object, in that case, you need more light from the strobe and less outside like, like this image:

But you can still see the fish behind it (I'm upside down here, by the way).

This is with a complete black out (taken during the day):

It just takes practice with the actual strobe and camera you are going to use, to understand what setting work and how to use them.

First, you just get a reasonable exposure, then you learn to get the exposure you want.

 

[hammerhead man]

Thanks for the reply Puffer Fish. I am shooting in manual mode and have tried to make adjustments based upon the light. However, I seem to have to correct many of my pictures in photoshop quite a bit in some instances. I will say that some of my pics come out fine and require little adjustments in photoshop.

Your comment regarding clipping on either end in the histogram was very informative. BTW, I really like the jellyfish shot. Great job. In fact, this whole thread has been very helpful.

Regards,

Bill

 

[Puffer Fish]

Thanks for the reply Puffer Fish. I am shooting in manual mode and have tried to make adjustments based upon the light. However, I seem to have to correct many of my pictures in photoshop quite a bit in some instances. I will say that some of my pics come out fine and require little adjustments in photoshop.

Your comment regarding clipping on either end in the histogram was very informative. BTW, I really like the jellyfish shot. Great job. In fact, this whole thread has been very helpful.

Regards,

Bill

Thanks.

Shooting in manual, with lots of different conditions takes some time to learn all the rules. If you get an image, with all the data there, then adjusting it is no big deal. Would suggest starting with the 2 stop strobe add and learn how to adjust for that, so you have a reference point to compare to.

Shots like the jelly are done with the strobes set to magnify backscatter (which I could clean up, if I would just spend some time on that image). You shut down the amount of light coming to the sensor (DSLR that would be using a very large F stop and in point an shoot, it would mean using a high shutter speed) and then let the strobes provide all the light.

There are days when I just use two stops worth of strobe light for all the images, and times when I use the blackout method. Both can make interesting images.

 

[Puffer Fish]

The best advise I can give to a new shooter, other than get your buoyancy control dead on before picking up a camera, is to learn to shoot in manual mode and to use a histogram if you camera has it. Preset modes work well above water but are not adequate for more than fair photos UW.
Manual is not nearly as difficult as you might imagine and once you get the basics down, your photos will improve greatly. In addition, manual allows you creativity that is not possible with an auto mode. Histograms allow you an instant and more importantly an accurate view of the exposure of your shot. On board screens will lie to you, the histogram will not. I almost totally ignore the screen for exposure information

Here are some shots to illustrate what I mean. The shots in these examples were taken within a minute of each other but have a totally different look, something not possible with an auto mode. The only difference between the photo pairs is shutter speed, light blue background means I used a slow speed, black means it was fast. I could have picked any blue from very light to black just by changing shutter speed.

Not the best lit photos but again, a good illustration.

Here is another thread you might find useful. I put more examples and explanations of the relationship between F-stop, shutter speed and flash power in the thread. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/underwater-photography/214500-help-manual-camera-settings.html

Really great examples of flash control, particularly the shrimp thing. And learning how camera's work should be job one, but anyone using a camera should also know that you can do the same thing outside of manual, you just need to understand the camera controls. I don't think I have used manual settings to take pictures for 20 or so years.

 

[slowhands]

Great thread!! Okay, here is my question, I understand how the camera displays the histogram and that ideally you want the histogram to not shift too far either left or right. However, in a point and shoot camera, how do you take into account the light that a strobe will emit that will cover the object of your picture. Should you adjust your histogram to show a shift to the dark side so that when the light from your strobe hits your subject it will ensure you get a great picture? I hope my question is clearly stated but I'm not sure.

Regards,

Bill

Good question. The Live View Histogram tells you what the camera sees, with current settings but without flash. The Playback Histogram shows what the camera saw, with flash. You can use both, but you have to stop and think, because flash canchange the image dramatically.

Here is where the art comes in to underwater photography, or experience plus a vision in your mind of what you want to capture. The flash is mainly going to illuminate near subjects, not far distant background, because water is 800 times denser than air. So yes, go for a Live View Histogram that has the background properly exposed, and use a small amount of flash to bring up the subject just a little.

Let's say you're shooting a gorgonian on a wall, and you want blue background. Expose for the background, using say a 1/15 or 1/30 exposure, looking up to the surface, so you've got your blue background in a reasonable exposure, but the subject is dull. Reduce flash a stop or so and aim it so it just illuminates the subject but not the clutter in the foreground. This should bring up the subject but keep the blue background you envisioned.

Don't be afraid to shoot one subject over and over to get what you envision. No tool like a Histogram is going to guarantee the image matches your vision, but it should get you close. Your first shot might be perfect, but most likely several adjustments will be needed.

 

[hammerhead man]

Slowhands, thanks for the info. I am going to Fiji in July and will take what you said and try try to incorporate your suggestions into my photos. In fact, thanks to all who responded to this thread. All the infor shared was great! I learned a lot from everyone.

Regards,

Bill

 

[WetPup]

Good, a thread for newbies

Can anybody provide some advice on a reasonable setup for a beginner? I bought myself an Intova SP8 and a housing a few months ago, but I'm really not happy with the image quality. I put it down to being a newbie underwater and not having a strobe...But then I started messing about with it a bit more topside as well, and the image quality is pretty shocking (and I have some reasonable experience with photography on land). As such, I'm looking to buy a better setup for underwater, but a camera that is also reasonable for topside.

I know there's a heap of options out there and I could in theory spend a fortune. I've been reading about the G11 and S90, but wonder if they're OTT for a total newbie? I'm really just looking for a simple point and shoot setup. Just want some decent happy snaps/videos that I might occasionally print and hang on the wall at home. Trying to keep the budget to under US$1000 for the setup (camera+housing+-strobe). Does anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks!