Newbie, Poor Diver or Jerk?

[pir8]

I didn't say I teach or advocate it, although I do try to teach monitoring of gauges

 

[friscuba]

Originally Posted by cyklon_300
is impressive...divers with 30, 50, 80 dives expounding at length on who's doing what incorrectly.

Imposing a 10 sq ft buffer zone is a new one on me. I like creative thinking...it's useless, but creative.

Lots to learn here.

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all4scuba05 said...

"its obvious that to some of you, recreational diving is a complicated sciense. That's understandable. Everyone learns at a different rate. You apparently think that it should take everyone else just as long to learn something as it took you. Surprise, some people are honor students and others, well they just graduate."
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Come back to this post in another couple hundred dives and see if you feel the same way. There are some divers who are fairly OK right off the bat, and there are some divers who think they are good right off the bat. People have a tendancy to overestimate thier capabillities. The worrying about being pushed into urchins has me wondering. In most cases, a buddy would have to be pusing awful hard to push a good diver into an urchin.

It took me a while to realize how mediocre of a diver I was at 20/30/50/100/150 dives. At each step I could see improvement. I'm pushing 2000 now and I'll bet in another 2000 I'll look back and see a big difference.

 

[pir8]

Hopefully I will be learning untill the day I die

 

[all4scuba05]

It depends entirely on the circumstances. Where I dive, during the summer months if you were 10 feet from your buddy you would never see him. You could wander off in different directions and never know it. Drift diving in a 2.5 knot current ... if you were 10 feet from your dive buddy you might as well not have one, because the two of you won't be capable of reaching each other in an emergency. Physical distance isn't the only factor you have to consider. What if you were 10 feet away when you ran out of air, but your buddy had his back turned to you and was swimming away. How far do you think you'd have to swim without breathing? It would kind've depend on whether or not you can swim faster than your buddy ... don't you think?


The complexity of your dive depends on where you're diving, who you're diving with, and what type of diving you plan to do. And you can do some very complicated dives and remain within recreational limits. Diving is all about exercising good judgment ... and, frankly, no matter how good your skills are, at 50 dives you don't have the experiential context yet to be able to exercise good judgment in any except the most benign conditions.

Honor student, huh? Yeah ... we were all honor students at one point in time. Most of us got over it. Give it a couple hundred more dives, and perhaps it'll start to dawn on you just how much you don't know ... then, much less now. Those rules of thumb you learned in OW class weren't the ultimate answers ... they're designed to give you enough information to keep you alive while you gain some real knowledge through experience. At 50 dives, you haven't even begun to learn yet.

There are no shortcuts ... not even for "honor students". If you want the knowledge and the skill you have to earn it ... and that takes bottom time. Leave the attitude on the beach ... before it leads you to a place you won't be able to get yourself out of. This ain't a healthy sport for the overconfident.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I know its a little time consuming but perhaps you could take a little time to read my all my posts in this thread before you give you allmighty opinion. Notice where I said,"if it's mentioned in the preplan that there should be a 10 ft space between him and I..." Do you not take into account viz and current and other factors before the diveplan is given? If I asked him to give me 10 ft of viz then obviuosly its not 2ft viz dive.

No, he is not going to leave me behind because I don't play that follow the leader game. Its side by side when I dive. And if you plan on racing while diving then you're on your own. I dive nice and easy.

Its those benign conditions that I'm saying 10ft space and you guys act like its going to kill someone.

I don't need to have 200 dives to know that there's alot that I don't know. But don't tell me that because I only have 30 dives, that I must not know how to control my buoyancy because all newbs typically bump everyone else. Even after my OW cert all I did was practice buoyancy and trim. Its seems that you guys took longer to learn it than I, and are mad that I don't feel I have a problem with those skills.

I'm overconfident? How would you know? You don't dive with me? You don't know what I'm confident about. If you did, you'd see its just about the basics. How could you say that operating that inflator takes incredible skills? Its not a science. Maybe to you it was but I found it easy and thats a fact. Maybe you didn't when you started but like I said, we all learn at a different rate. I never said anyone was a dummy for not learning it quick.

I want a 10ft space on a dive that's easy and simple and you can't stand it. WHATEVER !!! Tell it to the guys who are fine with their buddy being simply in the same ocean...

 

[all4scuba05]

Originally Posted by cyklon_300
is impressive...divers with 30, 50, 80 dives expounding at length on who's doing what incorrectly.

Imposing a 10 sq ft buffer zone is a new one on me. I like creative thinking...it's useless, but creative.

Lots to learn here.

_____________________________________________________
all4scuba05 said...

"its obvious that to some of you, recreational diving is a complicated sciense. That's understandable. Everyone learns at a different rate. You apparently think that it should take everyone else just as long to learn something as it took you. Surprise, some people are honor students and others, well they just graduate."
_________________________________________________

Come back to this post in another couple hundred dives and see if you feel the same way. There are some divers who are fairly OK right off the bat, and there are some divers who think they are good right off the bat. People have a tendancy to overestimate thier capabillities. The worrying about being pushed into urchins has me wondering. In most cases, a buddy would have to be pusing awful hard to push a good diver into an urchin.

It took me a while to realize how mediocre of a diver I was at 20/30/50/100/150 dives. At each step I could see improvement. I'm pushing 2000 now and I'll bet in another 2000 I'll look back and see a big difference.

Oh thats right....no one ever takes Macro shots....duuhhhh

 

[Darnold9999]

I am a little puzzled by comments criticizing those with a low number of dives offering advice and opinion.

If you disagree with someone's take on the problem then offer an alternative and reasons for the differing opinion. Don't just attempt to belittle their opinions by criticising their level of experience and compentency to give the opinion.

One of the best ways of learning and consolidating learning into action is to attempt to express/explain what you have learned to others.

Expressing your opinion and having someone with more experience or knowledge point out the flaws in the opinion is an excellent learning tool. Much better than just sitting and reading an "expert's" opinion. There is nowhere near the level of engagement in just reading. (For most people.)

We all (well most of us) post our number of dives and our location. This gives a yardstick for others to judge our level of expertise when reading our posts. Not a perfect one, but it is at least an indication of experience.

I am going to pay more attention to an Instructor from the PNW with 2000 + dives than I am to someone with 20 dives on the GBR. However, I am going to read both opinions and integrate both of them into my world view and keep an open mind knowing that both may have something to say that I can learn from.

When I post I am giving my opinion based on my current skill set, as is everyone else. I post for two reasons, first to offer a point of view, second to see if anyone disagrees with me. Hopefully if they do they will tell me why and I can reevaluate my opinion based on this new information. I suspect I am not alone, don't need anyone, regardless of their experience level, suggesting that my opinion has no value just because I don't have X dives. It may be wrong , but posting it does have value.

 

[TSandM]

I think people get testy when people with a low number of dives show up with a know-it-all attitude.

When I first came on this board, I asked questions, and sometimes I passed along something I'd been taught if a similar question was asked. I was pretty careful about stating any personal opinions, because I wasn't at all sure I had any right to have them, and I was pretty darned sure they weren't of any particular value to anybody. Even now, I try to be careful to post opinions of the "This is what this [piece of gear, training course, dive experience] was to ME", and not, "This is what this should be to YOU." And in general, if I posted something and a bunch of the senior people on this board jumped all over me for it, I'd back up and rethink, especially if they were people I've learned to respect. (That goes for everything except being enamored of DIR, of course )

 

[Sharkbaithawaii]

How about just knowing with who you are with? Out of my 70 ot so dives all but my cert dives have been with the same two people. I am comfortable with them and they were both very slow and taught me alot when we first started out. Its only been abou the last 20 or so dives that I have felt comfortable enough to venture out on my own and just maintain visual range. I know when we bring people with us that have never dove with us one of us stays close within 10-15 ft. And when they bump me I think of two things. 1. Hey they haven't dove with us and don't know how we orientate to each other. 2. (Most important- It wasn't that long ago that I was the one bumping and trying to figure out where to go on the dive. As for the rest, as long as we get back, in one piece, and can laugh about it. It was a good dive.

 

[Web Monkey]

I love a great troll (oops, I mean thread)

30 dives and all ****ed off at the world? There's just no way this is real.

I keep thinking about Les Nessman's Invisible Wall on "WKRP in Cincinatti".

Terry

 

[Dave Zimmerly]

30 dives = newbee.

Dave (aka "Squirt")