Newbie diver long trip report - Questionable diving?

[Craig66]

I reply to this knowing that in 5 days I am going to be in Cozumel with my 10 year old getting certified and your story is certainly concerning not only from a young divers perspective but from any new divers perspective.

I have been diving for 3 years and have about 180 dives. My daughter is 10, is the most adorable science nerd and is passionate about nature, the sea and life. She has been in the seal course for 2 years but will go through official dive education next week. Whilst I realise there are a lot of opinions about whether kids should be diving and at what age, I do think that when one dives with children there are certain things that need to be taken into account.

Firstly as far as dives buddies are concerned one needs to remember that you are there for her BUT she is also there for you and while at 180 dives I could probably be of help to her there is little chance at 10 of her bieng of any help to me in an emergency and so for many years I am going to have to factor in hiring a private DM into my dive plans AND dive budget. I think that expecting the group DM to pay extra attention to me and my daughter is probably not fair to me and her, not fair to the DM and not fair to the other divers.

Secondly I dont think I can expect to just arrive on a dive trip and go along with where everyone else goes. Going on a deep dive where a wall starts at 70 feet and hanging in midwater at 40 feet is still potentially a dangerous dive for a new diver and especially a 10 year old with differential currents and midwater swims. Those kinds of dives are also just not fun and so I will only go on a dive that is planned to be less rigorous.

Finding a dive op that can meet these needs is not as challenging as you might think and there are dive ops on Cozumel that will work with you. I myself have found Scuba Mau to be unbelievably accomodating and Mau and Opal at ScubaMau will definately work with you. Our plan next week is to go out on boats with less experienced divers to less challenging sites with our own DM. This is also an area where working with an op like Scuba Mau helps as Scuba Mau is one of the few operations on the island that will do afternoon dives just for the two of us if needs be and so we will not need to inconvenience other divers who dont want to be stuck for two tanks at 35 feet.

I am sorry the OP had such a negative experience and I hope that he will give Cozumel another try. It is an amazing place to visit and dive and has the highest concentration of outstanding dive operators around.

Craig

 

[viz]

Thanks for all the feedback folks! Computer profiles make complete sense now, everyone else but me and my daughter had computers. Now I'm also reassured that I didn't really get DCS as I wasn't at the limit, just seasick and stressed! Just to answer some of the questions.

Yes, we did our first ocean dive the day before at Chankanaab Park as a shore dive. This was a 25 ft. dive with one of the ops on the beach and we weren't using wetsuits. We didn't do a weight check and again, I sort of assumed we'd do one. But we got in the water and the DM said - let's go down, and down we went! I figured - tomorrow we'll have wetsuits for the first time, so we need to do a weight check over again, so no problem. Bad call I know...

We were certified by PADI. Instructor was great. We discussed belts but didn't use any during training. On the boat dive in Coz I remember taking off the belt and holding it dangling by the clasp. The captain (who spoke no English) showed me how that was wrong and the weights could slide off the free end that way. Boy did I feel stupid. But now I know how to hold a belt!

I'm really not trying to knock this op. I completely understand most of the responsibility was mine in not speaking up. I was very close to going to going with either Scuba Mau (had been emailing Opal) or the hotel dive op (Aquaworld with lukewarm reviews) but picked ERD at the last minute. Anyway, lesson(s) learned.

No DAN insurance. Before our dives in PDC I took dramamine bought from the hotel shop (hooray for drugs without prescriptions in Mexico!) and had no seasickness though that boat ride was much rougher. PDC dives were with Scuba Libre, the hotel op.

We'll definitely consider a private DM next time. My daughter was a real trooper and loved the dives. We'll definitely go back to Cozumel as it's such a treat. We are not put off by this at all. It's just that my wife and other daughter are not certified (and not clear if they will ever be), so we are now going to have the usual conflict about diving vacations or not!

 

[MMM]

I was very close to going to going with either Scuba Mau (had been emailing Opal) or the hotel dive op (Aquaworld with lukewarm reviews) but picked ERD at the last minute.

Out of general curiosity, what tipped you to go with ERD instead of other 2?

 

[DandyDon]

We were certified by PADI. Instructor was great. We discussed belts but didn't use any during training. On the boat dive in Coz I remember taking off the belt and holding it dangling by the clasp. The captain (who spoke no English) showed me how that was wrong and the weights could slide off the free end that way. Boy did I feel stupid. But now I know how to hold a belt!

As I suggested, if you are going to continue to rent gear - do practice dives in belts to get used to them, but I'd get some keepers. Aqua Stainless Steel Weight Keepers I like 4 to a belt to keep the left side weights and right side weights from shifting. Some do a half turn on each weight but I have seen those slip too. They come in plastic as well, but I have seen those break; I like SS...

No DAN insurance.

O M G! :shocked2: Please get DAN or stop diving, seriously. See PLEASE: Don't dive without DAN insurance My hunch was off, but I'll discuss that in another forum.

Before our dives in PDC I took dramamine bought from the hotel shop (hooray for drugs without prescriptions in Mexico!) and had no seasickness though that boat ride was much rougher.

It's OTC in the states too, but the med I mentioned earlier here is more popular.

 

[peterbj7]

I'm sure you have learned some lessons. The chief one to learn is that there are some pretty awful dive shops and dive instructors/guides out there. From my limited experience of diving from Cozumel I'm afraid I don't think this treatment is as unusual as others are apparently suggesting. It wouldn't be that unusual down here in Belize either.

The other main lesson to learn is that no matter how slender your experience you must take charge of your own dive. If you don't feel you have the knowledge or experience then choose your operator and guide with the utmost care. Probably dive with an instructor, carefully chosen. Interview the guide without time pressure before you go diving. If this can't be done at that operator, change operator.

A good rule of thumb that I always used to follow and always recommend these days is to dive with a company and guide who are qualified and experienced to a much higher level than just basic recreational diving. That's not the number of dives, but the type of dives they do. In that area the only operation I know that I would trust completely with a new diver and/or a child is Protec, as they are advanced technical divers and know what matters. I'm not saying there aren't other good operators, just that I have dived with a number of them (in Cozumel and Playa) and would not recommend any of them to beginners or young divers.

Until recently I ran my own dive technical center down here in Belize, and I still teach diving at all levels. I taught a course last weekend for another shop, and saw another instructor teaching a different course for the same shop. All I can say is that had he been working for me I would have stopped his course, fired and reported him, and either taught the course myself or refunded the money. I could go into detail, but basically he committed every error you've been complaining of plus a few, and all in the first few minutes. He is a recreational instructor with over 15 years instruction experience who used to own his own shop. He teaches at the maximum level he has achieved and he is (now at least) extremely sloppy. Sadly there are too many like him.

 

[firstdive2005]

I reply to this knowing that in 5 days I am going to be in Cozumel with my 10 year old getting certified and your story is certainly concerning not only from a young divers perspective but from any new divers perspective.

I have been diving for 3 years and have about 180 dives. My daughter is 10, is the most adorable science nerd and is passionate about nature, the sea and life. She has been in the seal course for 2 years but will go through official dive education next week. Whilst I realise there are a lot of opinions about whether kids should be diving and at what age, I do think that when one dives with children there are certain things that need to be taken into account.

Firstly as far as dives buddies are concerned one needs to remember that you are there for her BUT she is also there for you and while at 180 dives I could probably be of help to her there is little chance at 10 of her bieng of any help to me in an emergency and so for many years I am going to have to factor in hiring a private DM into my dive plans AND dive budget. I think that expecting the group DM to pay extra attention to me and my daughter is probably not fair to me and her, not fair to the DM and not fair to the other divers.

Secondly I dont think I can expect to just arrive on a dive trip and go along with where everyone else goes. Going on a deep dive where a wall starts at 70 feet and hanging in midwater at 40 feet is still potentially a dangerous dive for a new diver and especially a 10 year old with differential currents and midwater swims. Those kinds of dives are also just not fun and so I will only go on a dive that is planned to be less rigorous.

Finding a dive op that can meet these needs is not as challenging as you might think and there are dive ops on Cozumel that will work with you. I myself have found Scuba Mau to be unbelievably accomodating and Mau and Opal at ScubaMau will definately work with you. Our plan next week is to go out on boats with less experienced divers to less challenging sites with our own DM. This is also an area where working with an op like Scuba Mau helps as Scuba Mau is one of the few operations on the island that will do afternoon dives just for the two of us if needs be and so we will not need to inconvenience other divers who dont want to be stuck for two tanks at 35 feet.

I am sorry the OP had such a negative experience and I hope that he will give Cozumel another try. It is an amazing place to visit and dive and has the highest concentration of outstanding dive operators around.

Craig

Great attitude. I often tell Opal that I will join dive boats with new divers just to lend a silent hand. Depth is subjective to me. I love diving with new divers that are eager to be helped. I found myself with divers like that and I like to pay it forward.
One of the greatest tips ever given me was to learn to dive like noone was going to 'be there' for me if there was an issue. I am a freak for checking gas pressure and clock. My safety relys on me. Please train your daughter that way. And you will feel better about her diving without you later. Remember no one can hear you screaming anyway so learn to dive solo. That does not mean do it, just rely on yourself. I dont believe in relying on someone elses octo. That statement does not mean it wont ever happen to me, it means I dont rely on it.
One thing that will be cool for you is the shore dives at the shop. A great way to establish boyancy control. Maybe some compass work. The current is easy to work with, your daughter wont have a problem with it.
Your going to have a blast, wish I could see her face with ya. It's always a great thing to see. kev

 

[viz]

Why did we go with Eagle Ray? Mainly because I got the impression from reviews that they were really oriented towards families/new divers and I thought Scuba Mau was good for people that knew their diving. In hindsight I think this is not quite the case. Scuba Mau is definitely one of the top rated ops there and I would pick them for next time.

DandyDon, thanks for the tips on weights. Although I understand the benefits of owning gear, when it comes to weights, don't people usually leave them at home when air travel is involved? Just trying to understand what people normally do. It's kind of expensive if two people are checking in 12-16 lbs each in their luggage. We had to pay for each checked bag. Or do people usually carry the belt and retainers and rent weights from the dive shop?

 

[cvchief]

I think Don carries a lead melting pot and actually makes his own weights in his room so he is wieghted exactly right...... (I could be making that up.....) Thats another cerveza I owe him....

 

[ggunn]

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[ggunn]

I wholeheartedly agree with whoever opined (a page or two ago) that it was not a great idea to both get cert'ed together. I completely understand the dad-and-daughter experience sharing part of it, but as the dad your daughter would look to you for help if she got in trouble. As it should be, of course, but you weren't any more experienced than she, and if anything worse would have happened, you would have been no help to her. To me, that is the stuff from which nightmares are made.

My wife and I got our daughter certified when she was 13, after we had been diving for two years. She dove with us every summer in Cozumel for 11 years, and I treasure every one of those dives. I wouldn't change a thing.

BTW, I wouldn't be so hard on Eagle Ray, the cheerleading for other ops notwithstanding. Diving is an activity where we are all ultimately responsible for our own safety, and unless you hire someone to watch over you specifically, you can't expect to be babysat. It's ironic that the PdC op WAS paying special attention to other divers, which annoyed you because it cost you diving time. The shoe was on the other foot, wasn't it?