New Shipwreck Rules For Canada

[Ontario Diver]

I would add: "or temporarily for a newly discovered shipwreck until a proper (non-invasive) archaeological survey can be completed."

I wish that I could agree with that but I have concerns about some "person in authority" deciding that a wreck was off-limits until surveyed and then money or staff isn't available for years.

I guess I just don't trust the beureacracy on this.

The diving community has been self policing for years and had done an OK job at it. The diving activities that I would like to see enshrined are also non-invasive. I would compare it to walking over a land site prior to a dig taking place. If you are doing no harm through disregard or intent - no wreck should be off limits to Canadian divers. Competent and caring divers visiting a wreck and not disturbing it do not hamper the survey or any excavation that may take place in the future and as such should not be restricted.

 

[Ontario Diver]

It was mentioned several times over the course of the evening by the Parks Canada reps that the current FEDERAL legislation makes it legal to remove an artifact and give it to the receiver of wrecks. This does not work in Ontario where there is different legislation in place to protect wrecks but could be in effect in other provinces.

The next day the Ontario rep explained that any object on the lake/river bed for more than 50 years was considered a cultural object and removing it without proper authorization was a crime.

I'm not defending this or anything - just relaying what got said.

 

[sparky30]

I wish that I could agree with that but I have concerns about some "person in authority" deciding that a wreck was off-limits until surveyed and then money or staff isn't available for years.

I guess I just don't trust the beureacracy on this.

The diving community has been self policing for years and had done an OK job at it. The diving activities that I would like to see enshrined are also non-invasive. I would compare it to walking over a land site prior to a dig taking place. If you are doing no harm through disregard or intent - no wreck should be off limits to Canadian divers. Competent and caring divers visiting a wreck and not disturbing it do not hamper the survey or any excavation that may take place in the future and as such should not be restricted.

I agree with you, wrecks should not be restricted. You are correct, most divers are self policing. However, I would like to see stricter penalties and improved enforcement for those that break the rules and damage wrecks.
Maybe it could even go as far as a local diving organization (club, univeristy, etc..) taking responsibility for a wreck.. They could keep an eye on it and keep track of the artifacts and its general condition.. I don't think TC has the manpower to properly enforce the laws they are trying to implement.

 

[FreeFloat]

Maybe it could even go as far as a local diving organization (club, univeristy, etc..) taking responsibility for a wreck.. They could keep an eye on it and keep track of the artifacts and its general condition.. I don't think TC has the manpower to properly enforce the laws they are trying to implement.

Now there's an idea I support. I mean, we've all seen those "this section of highway sponsoerd by XYZ Rotary" etc. And if it became obvious that the sponsoring organization was neglecting their responsibilities, they could be offered a chance to pull up their socks, or else replaced.

 

[Marvintpa]

Saying that divers are self policing sounds great, and certain (small) steps have been taken to help, but I don't believe it is true in reality. We need only look to our own backyard for evidence. The brass plaque on the Munson generator, damage to the Munson tool bench from someone colliding with it, the plaque on the Ocean Wave, removal of artifacts from the Wexford, the stripping of the Tiller wreck, the stripping of the new wreck in Kingston... these all suggest that we suck at self policing.
I've seen divers crash into wrecks, grab the handles and wrench the wheel of the Marsh violently from side to side, kneel on wooden wrecks, push/pull levers to see if they work on machinery over a century old (to what point?), and more... and I can't say they leave me with the impression we, as a group, are actively trying to preserve these irreplaceable assets.

 

[cobaltbabe]

Although I was not at the meetings, I did take a fast look at some of the paperwork Matt brought home. We went for lunch and discussed it abit. I think they have the best of intentions but as Matt said, enforcing the rules could be very difficult. I think alot more discussion needs to happen before anything is put in stone. Personnally I think it is a good thing, just enforcing it could be a pain.

 

[pufferfish]

Hi all,


In a rather unusual move I would like to move this discussion to the Dive Ontario Message Board (http://ntdmm/list/) The reason that I would like to do this is that board is a real names only board. I have found that using your real name cuts the horse hockey down to a minimum. This will facilitate a the meaningful discussion that we all need to have on this topic as the time is ticking and our last real opportuinity for input is in two months time in Ottawa.

Dan

Dan,

I have not seen any "horse hockey" in this thread and the discussion has been very productive and civil. I assume it will stay this way whether people use a handle or not. Transfering discussion to another board may not be in the best interests of the general Ontario dive community who tends to frequent this forum and has for several years now. This is where people come to see what's up in the Ontario recreational dive scene.

Just my thoughts regarding that "unusual" request and hope you choose to continue to share your information and valuable insights with the general diving public here. We do appreciate your efforts at looking out for our wreck diving interests as the government attempts to develop new guidelines.

Pufferfish

 

[FreeFloat]

BTW For anyone who might be interested in keeping tabs on both lists the URL Dan meant to post is http://ntdmm.com/list . (You missed the .com Dan)

 

[Dan MacKay]

Dan,

I have not seen any "horse hockey" in this thread and the discussion has been very productive and civil. I assume it will stay this way whether people use a handle or not. Transfering discussion to another board may not be in the best interests of the general Ontario dive community who tends to frequent this forum and has for several years now. This is where people come to see what's up in the Ontario recreational dive scene.

Just my thoughts regarding that "unusual" request and hope you choose to continue to share your information and valuable insights with the general diving public here. We do appreciate your efforts at looking out for our wreck diving interests as the government attempts to develop new guidelines.

Pufferfish

Hi Puffer,

You are in fact quite right except for a couple of obvious trolls already. Seeing as how myself and very few concerned others are will likely be spending an inordinate amount of time doing rather than just talking over the next couple of months or so, working gratis on the behalf of the diving community at large in Ontario and perhaps Canada for that matter, I just would like to keep my desktop and S/N ratio to a minimum. Everyone is free to particpate or not as they choose.

 

[aquaoren]

Saying that divers are self policing sounds great, and certain (small) steps have been taken to help, but I don't believe it is true in reality. We need only look to our own backyard for evidence. The brass plaque on the Munson generator, damage to the Munson tool bench from someone colliding with it, the plaque on the Ocean Wave, removal of artifacts from the Wexford, the stripping of the Tiller wreck, the stripping of the new wreck in Kingston... these all suggest that we suck at self policing.
I've seen divers crash into wrecks, grab the handles and wrench the wheel of the Marsh violently from side to side, kneel on wooden wrecks, push/pull levers to see if they work on machinery over a century old (to what point?), and more... and I can't say they leave me with the impression we, as a group, are actively trying to preserve these irreplaceable assets.

I agree with you concerning self policing.
We really don't do a good job.
Last Saturday there was an idiot kneeling on the deck of the Munsonand pulling on the reeling, when I asked him to get off the wreck he gave me the ok sign and ignored me. I assume he thought I was concerned about him. What is most disturbing though, is that there where really a whole bunch of diver on the wreck, which didn't prevent the diver from doing this crapp.
Also, if an organization or a club assume responsibility for a wreck, can they be made liable if someone removes an artifact or damages the wreck?