New online certification courses - Good or bad?
- Thread starter beasleym
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Good feedback so far.
Couple of clarifications though:
1. All of the people I mentioned where from different locations except some were couples so they were likely from the same shop
2. I understand the online part and preparation. However, when I was certified it was clear that the people that had problems understanding the written work were the ones focused on in the pool and OW. On the flip side one guy did the written work but failed on clearing his mask. It can go both ways - but there's no tie between the online and practical in the new programs.
3. I wasn't trying to single out any particular certification agency. My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the pool and OW seem a bit expedited too. One shop advertises being certified in two days.
Couple of clarifications though:
1. All of the people I mentioned where from different locations except some were couples so they were likely from the same shop
2. I understand the online part and preparation. However, when I was certified it was clear that the people that had problems understanding the written work were the ones focused on in the pool and OW. On the flip side one guy did the written work but failed on clearing his mask. It can go both ways - but there's no tie between the online and practical in the new programs.
3. I wasn't trying to single out any particular certification agency. My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the pool and OW seem a bit expedited too. One shop advertises being certified in two days.
I certified in 83 and it was a college course, 2 days a week for 13 weeks, then the open water. Different kind of instruction then. Now days lots of shops offer the 2 day class but that is just to get you to your open water sessions. I have not seen them doing it quicker all though the online stuff maybe online and then 1 day in the pool. My girlfriend did the 2 day course and has no problems. Again I think it comes back to the instructor. She had good instructors and she learned the things she needed to do.
This is nearly a continuation of a discussion I was in last week with a Course Director. His take is that the online classroom is not working out well. Many students appearing at his door supposedly ready to do the pool and open water work have shown an alarmingly shallow understanding of the basics.
As he said, part of the classroom experience is the face to face, the feedback, the illustrative personal experience stories, the interaction between students, and the beginning of building the buddy systyem attitude into the students right from day 1. This, he said is noticeably absent in the online student. He is at the point where he interviews these students, and will not accept them into his classes if he feels they are not qualified, and this is creating problems between him and his agency.
He is also quite concerned that this new online trend is then being combined with the vacation "referal dives" style of completing OW that has been going on for quite a few years now, where there can be a real lack of dedicated teaching. This often can result in "certified" divers, who should not be diving, with as little knowledge and skill as they have.
As he said, part of the classroom experience is the face to face, the feedback, the illustrative personal experience stories, the interaction between students, and the beginning of building the buddy systyem attitude into the students right from day 1. This, he said is noticeably absent in the online student. He is at the point where he interviews these students, and will not accept them into his classes if he feels they are not qualified, and this is creating problems between him and his agency.
He is also quite concerned that this new online trend is then being combined with the vacation "referal dives" style of completing OW that has been going on for quite a few years now, where there can be a real lack of dedicated teaching. This often can result in "certified" divers, who should not be diving, with as little knowledge and skill as they have.
I honestly don't understand how buddy behavior is affected by whether you do your academics on line or in the classroom. When we get students who have done online classes, they go through the same in-water process everybody else does, where they learn the physical skills of diving, and where we emphasize working together as buddy teams.
I don't remember, in my OW class, much of anything in the book work that had to do with buddy skills . . .
I don't remember, in my OW class, much of anything in the book work that had to do with buddy skills . . .
I am a champion of online and self-study. As in most things, it depends on the student.
I believe any instructor worth his or her salt will be able to assess whether that student actually knows the material. Whether the instructor will tell the student s/he is not ready, is a different story.
I believe any instructor worth his or her salt will be able to assess whether that student actually knows the material. Whether the instructor will tell the student s/he is not ready, is a different story.
- Messages
- 97,529
- Reaction score
- 98,639
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
Online classes CAN work ... but I prefer to take the approach that they're a complement to class time, rather than a substitute for it. I'm not familiar with other agency's online classes, but with the NAUI class I can log on and monitor my student's progress at any point. I can see which topics they "get" and which they're struggling with by how they respond to the quizzes at the end of each topic. That way, when they show up for class we can cover the areas they struggled with and use the remaining time to go more in-depth on things that the book doesn't cover as well as I like. There is still classwork ... just more targeted to the needs of the student. eLearning gives students more time to prepare ... and it gives me an indication if I run up against a student who's slacking off, so I can talk to them prior to them showing up for class and remind them that the successful completion of the class is really as much up to them as it is up to me. When the program first rolled out, I was VERY skeptical ... but to be honest, I see it as a more efficient way to train ... but there still needs to be some face time before heading off to the pool.
The quality of an online class is gonna boil down to the same things an in-person class does ... how much time and effort both the student and the instructor put into it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
The quality of an online class is gonna boil down to the same things an in-person class does ... how much time and effort both the student and the instructor put into it ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
NuclearOOPS
Contributor
My buddy and I did something similar to online. We purchased our books. When we completed the material at home we went in for the final tests. There wasn't really any type of classroom. If we had questions beforehand, they were answered. I didn't miss any and my buddy missed one. After our tests the instructor did go over some things that weren't in the material. Our instructor only does private lessons, and he said we were his fastest pool group he's ever had. We breezed through training like it was second nature. Of course this is something i've wanted to do since I was fourteen and had 9 years to learn as much as possible on the net. It may sound like our instructor just let us pass, but thats not the case. I chose him becuase other instructors that know him said he's a little hardcore when it comes to training, which is what I wanted. I take my diving very serious, always practicing skills and trying to make myself a better diver. As much as who the instructor is matters, its also the students. Some people just catch on like they've been doing it their whole life and other people struggle to grasp the new material and techniques. Some people may perform well in front of the instructor while everything is still fresh in their head, but when out on their own maybe they forgot one thing or with all the excitment, just overlooked something.
UTD presents its materials online for pre-class review and then you do a test and bring it in. In the classes, you cover the same material again but are more prepared to discuss it and hopefully have already thought of the questions to ask. Then you do the skills and so on. It works! I personally cannot see the difference between doing acedemics online vs. in a class. While one would cover the same material twice with UTD (online then in the class), I get the impression that with other agencies it may not be covered again in the class -- in such cases, there should be more time to cover skills and pratice except if the class is cut to a shorter schedule due to the self-study.
If a diver exhibits lackluster skills and such cluelessness during a dive than that is the fault of the instructor not properly instructing, evaluating, or failing a student for failing to demonstrate even a modicum of competence. It could also be the students' fault for being lazy and not taking it seriously! Who knows!
That said, I've made a few mistakes myself post-OW but nothing like what you describe.
If a diver exhibits lackluster skills and such cluelessness during a dive than that is the fault of the instructor not properly instructing, evaluating, or failing a student for failing to demonstrate even a modicum of competence. It could also be the students' fault for being lazy and not taking it seriously! Who knows!
That said, I've made a few mistakes myself post-OW but nothing like what you describe.
Nothing wrong with a 2 day course..people do the online program, come into facility and do a quick review exam,instructor goes over any missed questions and then to pool.Same experience if they watch a dvd and read book.Only plus with online is that all quiz/exam is conducted via online.Saves enormous amount of classroom time. So people do all online work on their own and go to facility for inwater training. Course quality should NOT be based on how much time you can waste in a class/pool..Course quality is based on the end product , being the student. I have seen students from lousey instructors with 8 weeks of training( meeting 2 times a week) with 16 sessions of instructor time be complete incompetents in the water.
Course is objective based,not time based.Once objectives are met and "mastered" so that they can be performed in a easily repeatedly manner you go on to next set of objectives/skills. Someone in shape and water oriented can get ALL confined water work mastered in 4hours with a disciplined organized instructor. Some people who are natural klutzes need 20 hours or more or never "master" required skills.
Similar threads
