New Nikon D80 and UW housing

[RonFrank]

Hi Dave,
yes and no. It is not like one thing equals out the other exactly. With a minimum ISO 200 (D70), 1/500 sync speed is very handy because in bright ambient light and medium to wide appertures it is the only way to balance strobe and ambient light. Of course, with the new models being able to use ISO100, chances of having to use 1/500 sync speed are smaller. BUT let's not forget that by using ISO 100 your strobes are one f-stop less effective.

If you have light that allows you to shoot at ISO 100, or even ISO 200 at 1/500 with reasonable aperture so you have to balance the strobe, I'm wondering why you even need a strobe? And if you are shooting at say 1/500 at f8, what is the problem with shooting at the 1/250 at f11? Not enough strobe? Maybe more strobes or larger output is required. In any event, I can not think of a practical reason why 1/250 is a limitation.

Want to share some images that would have been unable to be done at 1/250, because I just don't see it as an issue.

I just want to explain the importance of fast sync speed to balance ambient and strobe light.
I have to recognize I feel tempted to buy D80 bodies myself, but I hope I can keep myself away from temptation and keep traveling with small, inexpensive strobes.

You can shoot at ISO 200 with the D80, or D200, and the results are going to be better than the D70. You can not shoot at ISO 100 with the D70, and there will be a bit better resolution using the ISO 100 sensor calibration using the D200, or D80.

Having a small strobe does not give you more power, or more options, quite the opposite. Shooting at 1/500 must be a luxury UW, I find it hard to get those shutter speeds on land at low ISO's with any DOF without very fast lenses. I'm not sure where you live or dive, but I've basically NEVER shot at 1/500 UW. I've certainly been in some good vis conditions on sunny days, but 1/500 is rare even on shallow reefs unless shooting wide open with a fast lens.

The 1/500 sync shutter resulted from Nikon's mechanical implementation of their shutter that controls speeds up to 1/250 of a second. Faster shutter speeds are obtained on the D1x, D70 and other camera's by turning the sensor on and off. However to obtain faster frame rates beyond 3fps (highly desirable in sports) Nikon implemented faster mechanical shutters. The side effect is a sync speed of 1/250 second, which is as fast as any mechanical shutters have operated in the past without wizbang flash technology that is not available using third party UW flash systems.

Needless to say, Nikon is not going to trade high frame rates for a bit faster shutter speed to cater to the UW market which rarely would even be able to shoot at 1/500 UW. However I just can't think of this as much of a limitation.

 

[RonFrank]

I have been looking at the Nikon 18-200mm just didn't think it would be included in the Costco set and wanted to check...I'll be in Maui

Well I have bad news for you. The 18-200mm is hard to find period. I waited a month after putting a 50% deposit down. I would have waited for MUCH longer had I put down no deposit.

The 18-200mm also is too large for most (maybe any) port. It extends well beyond what most ports will handle, and when shooting in WA mode is about the size of my 60mm macro. I could try to see if that lens will work with my flat port, but it's going to be a problem at the wide end, and would definatley not be able to zoom far without hitting the inside of the port which may do damage.

The 18-200 is a GREAT do it all lens, but not something one wants for UW use. It will become more availalbe as Nikon meets the demand. I paid $699 for mine, but they are selling on Ebay for $800-1000+, and a LOT of retailers are also selling them at that price. IMO the lens is NOT worth $800, in fact IMO $700 is a bit high even if it does have VR which works great.

On the plus side the lens performs very well, and VR works beyond my expectations. I did a shoot with this lens last weekend, and just set the shutter at 1/125, and let it go. I could NEVER shoot my 80-200f2.8 at 1/125 at 200mm using digital with solid results. I'd be lucky to get one out of three shots in focus, and that would be really working on holding the lens still.

 

[TravisD]

I'm in Canada but will be in the US in a couple weeks...which lenses are included with the Costco kit? I checked on-line but they must be selling it in-store only.

The kit includes the body, the 18-55 AF-S 1:3.5-5.6G ED Lens, the 55-200 AF-S 1:4-5.6G ED Lens, 512M of SD memory, strap, and a nice little case for it all.

Not the best lenses, but good enough to get _me_ started back into shooting with an SLR. No plans in the immediate future for an UW housing -- to few dives to worry about wrangling an expensive camera, and even more expensive housing around.

 

[bluefrogfish]

Hi Mike,
I am glad someone is getting the point !
I agree about the cyan cast around the sun.
Are there any serious comparatives about this?
I would be very interested in seeing similar images taken with different cameras to see the difference around the sun which is for me the main limitation since I took up digital.

ahhh bluefrog... good points...

BUT... if the D80 can handle the cyan cast around the sun better than the D70 i am sold on it...

the 5D and the D200 handle the sun light years better than the D70, so i assume the D80 follows suit

 

[bluefrogfish]

Hi RonFrank,

Even if there is enough ambient light to shoot at 1/500, strobe will give color and detail in the shadows. Even at 2 feet deep, strobe can make a big difference.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy/images/2006/2006_50.jpg

In this photo you can see a clear example of the importance of fast shutter speed. In the photo 1/400 and f7.1 was used. With a slower shutter speed the iceberg in the background would be overexposed, with a smaller apperture detail lit by strobe in the face of the seal wouldn´t be so good. So that photo wouldn´t be possible with a slower shutter speed and small strobes.

I shoot in all kind of conditions everywhere around the world, and I find myself often using speeds faster than 1/200 underwater, mainly when the surface or the sun are in the frame.

I agree a small strobe does not give you more power, but they are cheaper and easier to travel with, mostly when you travel with several units. And faster speeds let you open the aperture and thus being able to use less powerful strobes and still get good strobe light and balance background.

A good underwater photographer friend of me who recently changed from D70 to top of the line Canon tells me how much he misses the fast sync of D70 when he shoots sharks that are moving around him in A mode; when the shark passes over his head, he needs to readjusts aperture to avoid ovexposing the surface. With the D70 he would leave the camera on A mode and will never get an overexposed surface.

Personally I always use manual settings in UW photography, but it´s just another example of how useful 1/500 is.

I agree Nikon will not make a camera thinking about UW photo needs, and I may change to D80 bodies myself in the future due to sensor quality, but I know for sure I will miss that 1/500....

If you have light that allows you to shoot at ISO 100, or even ISO 200 at 1/500 with reasonable aperture so you have to balance the strobe, I'm wondering why you even need a strobe? And if you are shooting at say 1/500 at f8, what is the problem with shooting at the 1/250 at f11? Not enough strobe? Maybe more strobes or larger output is required. In any event, I can not think of a practical reason why 1/250 is a limitation.

Want to share some images that would have been unable to be done at 1/250, because I just don't see it as an issue.



You can shoot at ISO 200 with the D80, or D200, and the results are going to be better than the D70. You can not shoot at ISO 100 with the D70, and there will be a bit better resolution using the ISO 100 sensor calibration using the D200, or D80.

Having a small strobe does not give you more power, or more options, quite the opposite. Shooting at 1/500 must be a luxury UW, I find it hard to get those shutter speeds on land at low ISO's with any DOF without very fast lenses. I'm not sure where you live or dive, but I've basically NEVER shot at 1/500 UW. I've certainly been in some good vis conditions on sunny days, but 1/500 is rare even on shallow reefs unless shooting wide open with a fast lens.

The 1/500 sync shutter resulted from Nikon's mechanical implementation of their shutter that controls speeds up to 1/250 of a second. Faster shutter speeds are obtained on the D1x, D70 and other camera's by turning the sensor on and off. However to obtain faster frame rates beyond 3fps (highly desirable in sports) Nikon implemented faster mechanical shutters. The side effect is a sync speed of 1/250 second, which is as fast as any mechanical shutters have operated in the past without wizbang flash technology that is not available using third party UW flash systems.

Needless to say, Nikon is not going to trade high frame rates for a bit faster shutter speed to cater to the UW market which rarely would even be able to shoot at 1/500 UW. However I just can't think of this as much of a limitation.

 

[Mike Veitch]

i did a side by side comparison of D70 and Canon 5D...

not even in the same league... 5D light years ahead..

as is the D200 from what i have seen but haven't been able to test myself

 

[RonFrank]

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy/images/2006/2006_50.jpg

In this photo you can see a clear example of the importance of fast shutter speed. In the photo 1/400 and f7.1 was used. With a slower shutter speed the iceberg in the background would be overexposed, with a smaller apperture detail lit by strobe in the face of the seal wouldn´t be so good. So that photo wouldn´t be possible with a slower shutter speed and small strobes.

Hi BlueFrog,

I shoot the D1x (also 1/500 sycn) and while I think it's nice to have 1/500 flash sync, I still just don't see why it's that important given your example.

D70 ISO 200 1/400 F7.1. D200 ISO 100 1/200 f7.1. Same DOF, same exposure, more better ISO.

I would think something would have to be moving at a very fast pace to blur U/W at 1/250, and the strobe should help stop action as well, but won't freeze something if it's moving fast enough. Then again something moving that fast is going to be harder to shoot, and in general things don't move that fast UW.

Get ready for disappointment because unless you put an SB800 UW, or a third party manufacture adds Nikons high sync speed technology to the mix, 35mm DSLR's just are likely not going to offer 1/500 sync again. Canon is at 1/200 for the 5D, and Nikon is at 1/250 for the D2x/D200 and on down the line.

If you love the D70, now is a good time to pick up an extra body or two. I think you MIGHT find them new still, but I have not looked.

 

[Jamdiver]

i did a side by side comparison of D70 and Canon 5D...

not even in the same league... 5D light years ahead..

as is the D200 from what i have seen but haven't been able to test myself

I need to print this........... :mooner::mooner::mooner:

 

[Mike Veitch]

I need to print this........... :mooner::mooner::mooner:

Why?

New technology vs old....

buy a nikon.... its newer technology than the canon..... (at least this month...)

 

[Jamdiver]

Why?

New technology vs old....

buy a nikon.... its newer technology than the canon..... (at least this month...)

The D80?
Too rich for my blood.... Although I must admit that it's very very tempting..
20D is in the same price range I think.....

I was attempting to make a poor C vs. N joke.....
Obviously I haven't got the hang of it yet :14:.

I hear rumours of a Nikon D60 (successor to the Nikon D50) being released in the very near future...