New Experience in Pond

[toodive4]

Those few of you that see nothing wrong with this "rookie" attempting what was being attempted must be trying to influence suicide. I dive everyday in vis less than one foot and often in temps in the low 40's. The bottom of a pond can easily be much like the bottom of a harbor. Entanglements etc... I seriously doubt that without proper training in low vis, cold water, problematic conditions at best - not carrying a light, most likely not carrying a cutting tool to escape entanglements etc... that these guys have much chance of succeeding without injuring or killing themselves.

I agree that they showed common sense and good judgement in aborting the dive, and they'll show even more common sense by not trying it again. Apparently they didn't even have a clue as to what the maximum depth of the pond was? Do they know what the bottom consists of (mud, sand, grasses,) are they familiar with suction as it relates to a large object being stuck in the mud... everything about this is bad. It may sound simple... hook up a chain and pull a jeep out. I might agree that it was fairly simple if the jeep rolled off a sandy beach in the Bahamas into 10 feet of crystal clear water.... but this is different and those of you that suggest otherwise need your heads examined.

K

...that you & I have a difference of attitude when it comes to safe diving practices.

"av8er"'s only reference to his experience level was that he was a "rookie"; that leaves one to try & give advice based on what was contained in the original posting. IMO, the original post gave strong indications that this individual was heading for potential trouble should they pursue this activity. Lines like: "my breathing started to really speed up and I was taking rapid short breaths. This made me feel pretty uncomfortable" suggests to me the individual was experiencing significant anxiety in this pursuit, which could possibly initiate the panic cycle. "My buddy continued to about 25 feet where he said he did not reach the bottom and it was too cold for him." Seperation in these conditions ( or any, for that matter ) indicate an unfocused, possibly reckless approach to the task ( the lure of "the find" can be very strong, as is the desire for success & the recognition to follow...). The fact that they called the dive & are now pursuing experienced advice indicates to me this individual has the POTENTIAL ( intelligence, common sense ) to engage in such endeavours IN THE FUTURE, after gaining more experience / training.

It is a published fact that most diving related injuries / fatalities involve inexperienced individuals who dive beyond their personal capabilities & limitations.

Further, IMO, people who profer opinions &/or act as advisors on these public boards have a responsibility, especially to the novice divers, to temper their advice carefully. By not being actively involved in the actual situations described, or knowing anything about the individual posting other than what is presented in their personal file & in their post(s), we are asked to dispense advice. I feel it is crucial to maintain a very conservative approach to such advice. New divers must be imbued with a healthy respect for the environment they are just coming to know. This type of attitude forging should begin in basic training. I believe many of the problems encountered by recreational divers could be substantially reduced if diving leaders would take the time to ingrain in new divers the absolute necessity of a conservative, cautious philosophy / approach to diving activities.

Regards,
D.S.D.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'd be more worried about runoff into the pond pesticides and cow crap - gross! Not with my gear.


His anxiety level probably wouldn't have been nearly as bad had he worn a wetsuit. Cold water in these parts is mid-70s, high 60s. Without a wetsuit, I'd be damned cold too. It'd be nice to know more about this pond, it may not be nearly as bad as some of the people here assume, but without more info - why risk advising the wrong ideas?

 

[mike_s]

LEt's say you decide to do this. Finding a jeep in 1' vis means that you'll find it with "your face" as you swim into it.

There are better easier ways in a pond. Get a "Jon boat" and one of those "underwater retreival magnets". You know, the ones you've seen for $20 or $40 bucks in a Harbor Freight ad that says it can pick up 100 lbs. Tie a rope to it and lower it over the side of the boat where the jeep is supposed to be. If it hits dirt/silt, you pull it back up. if you feel the magnet "grab" the vehicle, then you know exactly where it is. Tie off a float to the rope and you have an descent/ascent rope that leads you DIRECTLY to the vehicle.

On a non diving related note, how'd they "sink the jeep?"

 

[Don Burke]

I would lay this one off to a pro.

Before I called one, I would find the jeep with a magnet and leave a buoy on the line to the magnet. Then I would search around the first buoy with a second magnet to see if there were any more vehicles in the pond. It is entirely possible that there are several vehicles down there.

Is there any way the pond could be temporarily drained?

 

[FredT]

Having done several recoveries and more than my fair share of braille diving in water of questionable quality requiring the MD to stick multiple new holes in my body the best advice I have is to listen to Gary D VERY CLOSELY. I've been on several non-PSD dives with him and he knows exactly what he's doing.

Controlling the beast in your head when you get in 0 vis is MANDATORY! The adrenalin rush an panic attack when that beast raises it's head are probably the largest cause of diver deaths. You start making really BAD decisions and things can go from uncomfortable to fatal in seconds. To get a feel for braille diving black the inside of your mask with aluminum foil, then make a dive with a non-blacked out buddy in water you know. You lead the dive, then have your buddy describe it once you get up. At least you'll know you can remove the foil and see again if it starts to go south in your head.

One thing I found out early is that going from some vis to none is worse than just not seeing. Keeping your eyes closed can help tame the beast, so can not expecting to see from before you get wet. I had a mask with a plywood face plate I used when diving in 0 vis farm ponds. Not only was it easier to not see early, but i didn't risk breaking the plate by bumping into stuff on the bottom and getting that nasty water into my eyes.

 

[av8er23]

Controlling the beast in your head when you get in 0 vis is MANDATORY! The adrenalin rush an panic attack when that beast raises it's head are probably the largest cause of diver deaths. You start making really BAD decisions and things can go from uncomfortable to fatal in seconds.

I like how you described the mental part of the dive. I have another question... Several people had went on about why my buddy went farther to a depth of 25 feet as I surfaced. How are you suppose to keep up with each other in these conditions? The magnet was a great Idea... I did not think of that. Is a rapid acent from a depth of 25 feet potentally dangerous? I know it is not good but is it very likely that you could get an embolism from this depth?

 

[Gary D.]

This is what most everyone is recommending which I respect very much. But I am trying to learn a little more from the given situation than just to hear call someone else. I am all for getting proper training to help one deal with a given situation. I was just looking for this to be more of a learning experience. Was it really a deadly situation that I was putting myself in? I know there are many factors to consider but I did not really consider it extremely dangerous. Am I wrong?

Let me give you a little scenario about a dive three years ago.

We were looking for the body of a female in a river with poor vis at the time. We knew she was there but her exact location was a mystery.

I’m doing DPV patterns at 45 degrees to the, very light, river flow strictly on the compass which was barely readable a foot in front of me. Good tight patterns within 6’ at the end of a 200 yard run over and over again.

On one run the world around me went total black and I came to an abrupt halt when I hit something. Holy Poo Batman now what the heck was that. I start feeling all around me. I can’t see anything, but everywhere I touch is logs. Logs to the right, to the left, in front of me and above me.

It didn’t take long to realize that I had just gone “INTO” a large pile of saw logs left over at the old mill site. These logs were like pick-up-sticks running every which direction so there were a lot of holes between them.

Simple solution. I came into that pile on the DPV so why not go out on it. I turned it 180 degrees, now just by feel, from my original location and hit the trigger. It hit a couple of logs as did my head but out I came.

The only difference between this and what you described was I’m on a DPV and dealing with logs. Yours was free swimming and a tree. How would you have reacted had you gotten between the branches? What if there was fishing line mixed in with those branches?

There are way to many hazards to list on how a dive like that turn ugly real fast. If your not trained and I mean really trained by someone who knows what they are doing shy away from it. Getting training from a buddy who is like the “Little Engine That Could” is not a good way to go. You might get away with things for a while but someday it just might bite you in the rear.

Someone mentioned going with a trained person on the dive. My answer would be no. You need at least the basic training for all the conditions you mentioned plus show proficiency in them. Having a diver freak out can result in having two victims more often than not. Besides in zero or near zero vis their isn’t much to learn by watching.

We recovered the victim a couple of months later when the river flows increased. She was where we thought she was.

Gary D.

 

[av8er23]

Great story. Were you the one that actually found her? That has to be really scary.

 

[Gary D.]

Great story. Were you the one that actually found her? That has to be really scary.

With over 37 years in this business, either as a PSD or Navy Diver, I have averaged over 6 a year. Other than a couple that have stuck with me most recoveries are just another day at the office.

I don't get personal with them. You need to mentally treat them like an object and nothing else if you want to stay sane. Remember you are doing this for others and not the victim as the victim could care less what we do.

I have been in major trouble several times but good training and staying calm have saved the day. I have only been grounded twice after a bad situation. All the others I corrected the problem and continued what I was doing.

Training, training, training and incase you didn't get my point, TRAINING. The more you do something the calmer you will be but you need good roots to start with so make that PROPER TRAINING.

Don't get in over your head and DO NOT let peer pressure push you into anything you don't feel comfortable doing.

Gary D.

 

[Don Burke]

I like how you described the mental part of the dive. I have another question... Several people had went on about why my buddy went farther to a depth of 25 feet as I surfaced. How are you suppose to keep up with each other in these conditions? The magnet was a great Idea... I did not think of that. Is a rapid acent from a depth of 25 feet potentally dangerous? I know it is not good but is it very likely that you could get an embolism from this depth?

I use a magnet for any search by the "plumb bob" method. If the item is not ferrous, I should just feel the clunk with no attraction. I often stumble across interesting stuff.

I use dacron doublebraid to better feel the bottom.

Embolism is a great danger shallow. Ten feet is plenty. Twenty-five is more than plenty.