new divers and rescue skills

[boulderjohn]

I have to admit that although I don't think it would be all that hard to add the skill to a basic OW course, it does not break my heart that a new OW diver acting as my buddy may not have the skill necessary to recover my body in the event of my death. How many times do you think a diver has been raised to the surface after lying unconscious on the bottom and then successfully revived? I remember a thread quite some time ago in which a physician diver opined that it has probably never happened. In the case of the trial that just ended regarding the death of Tina Watson, the autopsy indicated that although she had already drowned before the trained professional brought her to the surface, that ascent probably caused the embolism that they found and probably would have killed her anyway.


While recently serving as the victim for an unconscious diver recovery in a Rescue Diver course, I lay quietly on the bottom awaiting rescue. I felt the diver settle on top of me and lift my inflator. Then I heard the unmistakable whooshing sound as he held that inflator button down for all he was worth. I started exhaling as hard as I possibly could, and I continued to do so as I took that rocket ride to the surface--the instructor had not been quick enough to stop him. I think of that every time I teach that skill, and I am very aware that teaching it could kill more people than it saves.

Those who do not know Thal well do not know that the OW course he teaches takes 100 hours and requires 12 (or maybe 13--can't remember) OW dives. I imagine he has ample time to teach those skills.

 

[Bob DBF]

You claim it's a free country & you can do what you want, but people who can't or don't do a course to suit your standards (including CPR, which seems a fairly arbitrary requirement unless we've got the hard evidence I mentioned) are told "tough ****" and they can't participate? Not necessarily with you, but with each other as informed consenting adults?

What rational basis is there to stop at First Aid & CPR? People talk about experience; perhaps OW candidates should be required to go on some 'runs' with a local EMT service and witness real emergencies so they'll be more psychologically ready to handle the stress if one comes up on a dive. If everyone had to complete GUE Fundamentals before getting an OW cert., they'd be better buddies and safer divers, too, right? Ridiculous, I know, but my point is, what rational basis is there to draw the line in one place vs. another?

I'm glad some courses include some rescue skills, that the training is available, and I advocate helping make people aware of it so more people can get the training. What I take issue with is the mentality that says 'Let's make everybody do this because we think it's a good idea!'

Richard.

The reason I believe that water rescue, CPR and basic first aid should be taught in OW class is that it was considered important and usefull to dive buddies that would most likely be the only people available when an accident occoured and was covered in the book I read to learn to dive SCUBA. This was in 1963 and diving has become more popular, but I still find myself diving in places where there is no other help available. The help may be futile but at least you know how to try.

As for freedom, I was forced by the dive industry into an OW class because it was cheaper than buying a compresser. There is no law governing certification, only the limits that the dive industry (or their laywers) impose on the recreational divers. If you can't buy air or go on a dive trip it does limit your diving. Should you buy your own compressor you can dive all you want without certification. I personally don't give a rip whether people get certified, how they dive, or how they live their lives, but if they hold a c-card and can't swim (pick your own annoyance) they are just fooling themselves.

In 1980 I took a NAUI / PADI class using a PADI OW manual and additions by the instructor. It covered the same materials I had learned in "The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving" 17 years earlier. The basics that a SCUBA Diver should know had not changed, and from my experience to this day, those basics are the same. The fact that an agency should give the same certification without giving the same, or better, training is unconscionable.



Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[Ayisha]

If you are performing CPR on a victim for 20-30 min and you have not brought them back it's time to call the code. By the time you got back to port the victim is probably beyond medical help anyways.

Most of us cannot "call the code" freewillie. You can pronounce death since you're a medical doctor, but most of us cannot. "We" have to continue CPR until we are exhausted or a more qualified person takes over.

 

[endurodog]

Damn John that is a scary feeling! Glad you didn't pop.

My OW course was a college course with lots of extras and I really was glad to get it. Some really enjoy that kind of instruction but I understand why the courses have been adjusted and contrary to what lots say on here I think they turn out a lot of very competent divers, not all of course but the majority for an entry level point into the scuba world.

 

[Ayisha]

I'm wondering something about First Aid/CPR training in the U.S. Do high school students have to do it as part of gym class? Here in Ontario, Canada, we took swimming lessons, First Aid and CPR every year starting from Grade 5 as part of a course within our gym class. The following year, we could continue at the next level of the swimming class after the one we achieved (many of us reaching lifeguard by Grade 12). Each swimming course included First Aid and CPR.

Heck, in grade 6 I took a babysitting course through the school which included First Aid and CPR and I got a certificate from St. John's Ambulance for it.

When I did the Rescue Diver, I already had an equivalent First Aid/CPR certificate through my work that is required to be kept up to date in my line of work.

Around here, there are lots of opportunities for everyone to do First Aid/CPR before adulthood. Aren't there also those opportunities in the U.S.? Don't most people already have some First Aid/CPR by the time they take O/W?

 

[Thalassamania]

I suspect that the lives that will be saved would more often be the result of better trained divers rather than those in need of rescue (of which there would thus be less).

 

[spectrum]

freewillie,

Once upon a time the rescue skills of the day as well as most and in some cases more of what is called for lack of a better term AOW were all part of the Open Water certification. In the day you would spend much more time in the class, pool and open water. Open water dives were as much an apprenticeship as they were stupid diver tricks (clear your mask, retrieve your regulator, roll over and blow bubbles pose for your card photo). Underwater harassment like snatching regulators and turning air off were par for the course. Many washed out and most that did certify were off to a sound start. There is no limit what a new diver can be expected to learn but it means commitment and investment.

The need for some of this has been slightly mitigated by modern gear. By and large programs have been watered down to accommodate the vacation diver that does not plan to navigate or think for themselves and intends to dive only in benign conditions. The desperation to bring divers into a declining sport and customers demand for instant gratification are all drivers. If a new diver works hard or is a natural he/she should be able to make dives comparable to their certification conditions unsupervised. From there they will range to washing out never diving post certification.

Apart from the industry norm there are some over the top instructors, some of whom are visible here on ScubaBoard. While I have never met any of these folks I am comfortable assuming that they walk the walk. Their words have been clear and consistent. Some were probably trained originally to equally high standards and some needed to claw their way up from mediocrity and are now trying to give something back. If you want that sort of instructor you will need to do your homework, but they are out there. Do not assume that what you read here on ScubaBoard represents the dive instruction world in general. You are hearing from the few people that have good things to say. The rest are not going to post that they are under achievers who cut every corner they can to move students along.

There are programs that do include limited rescue skill in the OW outline, NAUI comes to mind. I certified PDIC and went NAUI for my AOW class. The remedial time to run through the missing rescue skill was about 10 minutes. As NAUI permits I advocate rescue prior to AOW, especially if a diver is less than comfortable under water. I also believe divers must be diving between classes, the real experience is where skill is built. If the task loading overwhelms a student (and all are unique individuals) then more time, not less learning is in order.

Just as people will do little more than is demanded of them instruction is the same. As long as people stand inline for discount weekend zero to hero classes such instruction will remain a big part of the status quo. When people are lined up to be challenged by robust instruction programs the market will follow.

Pete

 

[gcarter]

Ah ... there is a major difference, all it would take is for the agencies to have the strength of will to decide to do it, nothing more, meet the spec to be certified, end of story. But there is no way to force pleasantness.

I agree, all they need to do is decide to do it, but that still ignores the question of logical linkage and benefit. I have seen not anything posted here that shows me any benefit to including this in OW training requirements other than some fuzzy "it is something everyone should know".

EDIT:For clarity, I do not question the value of adding rescue skills to OW; I am questioning the value of requiring CPR.

 

[Thalassamania]

Is CPR going to lower in in-water accident fatality rate? I rather doubt it. But rescue breathing might and they sort of go as a package.

 

[Bob DBF]

I agree, all they need to do is decide to do it, but that still ignores the question of logical linkage and benefit. I have seen not anything posted here that shows me any benefit to including this in OW training requirements other than some fuzzy "it is something everyone should know".

EDIT:For clarity, I do not question the value of adding rescue skills to OW; I am questioning the value of requiring CPR.

It is not a question of adding skills, in my opinion it is giving the same certification for a course that has had many skills removed from the training and giving lip service to many of the skills that remain to the point where, IMHO, some agencies can not meet the OW diver standard to which they subscribe.

In another context, licencing a CPA and explaining that in Advanced CPA they will learn math.



Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.