New Diver? Want Gear? Read this First!

[Quarrior]

Let me start by saying, I’m a relatively new diver myself, thus, I feel I’m pretty qualified to give the advice below. Some may say otherwise, but, consider this. I still speak the language of the new diver, so, I’m not going to make any suggestions as to what type gear is better, I’ll leave that to your own research.

First, when it comes to making a decision on what piece of life support equipment (BC and reg) to buy; rent, rent, rent, and rent some more.

Simply put, have you ever purchased a car without test driving it? Consider this, you test drive a car to see how it handles and how comfortable it is. Shouldn’t you test drive something your life is going to depend on when you are deep in the water in an alien environment?

I know, you’re probably saying, “my instructor says this is the best for me”. I heard that from my instructor too. Unfortunately, I’m an engineer who learned how to be an engineer in the field, not in school. So, I rarely take anybody’s word for anything. I always investigate it myself.

Since beginning diving last November I have completed 26 dives, 23 of them since February. Consequently, while there are more active divers, I feel I’m pretty active in it myself.

During those dives I have used a few different brands and models of gear. One thing that stood out was the equipment my instructor said to use, was not the equipment he, the LDS owner, was willing to rent to me to test for my comfort and to make my own decision. Consequently, I didn’t buy it. If you have one of these types of LDS, you have a couple options, 1) find a dive buddy that will let you try his/her gear, or, 2) find an LDS that will rent what they sell. I did both and couldn’t be happier with my gear selection.

Another resource for information on gear is the net. You can find all kinds of valuable information that explains what is what with gear. I’m not going to say who is reputable for gear reviews, but, you can certainly find explanations about the difference between the different types of gear and the benefits and disadvantages of each. Then you’ll be able to ask some questions here on the board.

Keep in mind asking a question on the board like, “which reg should I buy?” is like being a new driver and asking “which car should I buy?” Everyone has their own preference and good reasons for liking it, but in reality it really is up to you.

If someone tells you one reg breathes better than another reg, can you believe them? Can you tell the difference? I think not, if you have not used both. Even then, as a new diver, you probably wouldn’t be able to tell unless you have done a lot of dives with them. But, you’ll be able to say, “I have experience with them and my feelings about them is….”

After renting some gear for a while, you’ll be in a position to ask questions on the board like, “I’ve used this particular piece of gear and feel this…., what does everyone think of it?”

Lastly, are you 200% committed to diving? If you are not sure, consider buying some used gear on the net or from a friend and take it in to your LDS for inspection/overhaul. I did this, word of caution here you may succeed in royally pissing off your LDS, but if your LDS is a good LDS, they will understand you want to get used to using the same set of gear all the time and will be investing in better more expensive gear as time goes on.

So, go dive and have some fun. Don’t buy anything just because someone tells you to. Investigate it yourself and make your own decisions. Remember, once you get a new piece of gear wet, you are stuck with it. Most LDS’ will not take it back.

I hope I have helped here and not started a flame fest. I would invite those with more experience and knowledge to provide positive and helpful suggestions to this thread.

Thanks

Brian

 

[TTSkipper]

Very well said!

TTSkipper

 

[theskull]

I second that "very well said"!

A surprisingly lucid post from someone who REALLY likes nitrogen (perhaps as much as I do).

I would add, and I know you would approve of the addition, brianwl, to take advice on what to buy with suspicion, especially if it comes from someone whom you do not KNOW and also know how he/she dives.

theskull

 

[fdog]

Sure enough true, Brian!

It has always seemed to me that buying gear solely on a percieved experts' opinion is a bit like going on a "trust me dive".

Try before you buy.

All the best, James

 

[Quarrior]

Since I wrote this I now have 77 dives and will probably hit 100 by mid Oct. I am extremely happy with my gear choices and the LDS I have chosen.

The LDS I use expects me to come in with questions about gear and knowledge I learned on the net. In fact he would be very surprised if I didn't. Secondly, that LDS competes with net prices on gear. Lastly, they actually encourage me finding great deals on the net and are not in slightest bit upset if I show up with something I've purchased on the net. They know where I bring my business and how many people I send their way. They also know where I have spent the majority of the huge investment I've made in the past couple of months, in their shop.

Let me start by saying, I’m a relatively new diver myself, thus, I feel I’m pretty qualified to give the advice below. Some may say otherwise, but, consider this. I still speak the language of the new diver, so, I’m not going to make any suggestions as to what type gear is better, I’ll leave that to your own research.

First, when it comes to making a decision on what piece of life support equipment (BC and reg) to buy; rent, rent, rent, and rent some more.

Simply put, have you ever purchased a car without test driving it? Consider this, you test drive a car to see how it handles and how comfortable it is. Shouldn’t you test drive something your life is going to depend on when you are deep in the water in an alien environment?

I know, you’re probably saying, “my instructor says this is the best for me”. I heard that from my instructor too. Unfortunately, I’m an engineer who learned how to be an engineer in the field, not in school. So, I rarely take anybody’s word for anything. I always investigate it myself.

Since beginning diving last November I have completed 26 dives, 23 of them since February. Consequently, while there are more active divers, I feel I’m pretty active in it myself.

During those dives I have used a few different brands and models of gear. One thing that stood out was the equipment my instructor said to use, was not the equipment he, the LDS owner, was willing to rent to me to test for my comfort and to make my own decision. Consequently, I didn’t buy it. If you have one of these types of LDS, you have a couple options, 1) find a dive buddy that will let you try his/her gear, or, 2) find an LDS that will rent what they sell. I did both and couldn’t be happier with my gear selection.

Another resource for information on gear is the net. You can find all kinds of valuable information that explains what is what with gear. I’m not going to say who is reputable for gear reviews, but, you can certainly find explanations about the difference between the different types of gear and the benefits and disadvantages of each. Then you’ll be able to ask some questions here on the board.

Keep in mind asking a question on the board like, “which reg should I buy?” is like being a new driver and asking “which car should I buy?” Everyone has their own preference and good reasons for liking it, but in reality it really is up to you.

If someone tells you one reg breathes better than another reg, can you believe them? Can you tell the difference? I think not, if you have not used both. Even then, as a new diver, you probably wouldn’t be able to tell unless you have done a lot of dives with them. But, you’ll be able to say, “I have experience with them and my feelings about them is….”

After renting some gear for a while, you’ll be in a position to ask questions on the board like, “I’ve used this particular piece of gear and feel this…., what does everyone think of it?”

Lastly, are you 200% committed to diving? If you are not sure, consider buying some used gear on the net or from a friend and take it in to your LDS for inspection/overhaul. I did this, word of caution here you may succeed in royally pissing off your LDS, but if your LDS is a good LDS, they will understand you want to get used to using the same set of gear all the time and will be investing in better more expensive gear as time goes on.

So, go dive and have some fun. Don’t buy anything just because someone tells you to. Investigate it yourself and make your own decisions. Remember, once you get a new piece of gear wet, you are stuck with it. Most LDS’ will not take it back.

I hope I have helped here and not started a flame fest. I would invite those with more experience and knowledge to provide positive and helpful suggestions to this thread.

Thanks

Brian

 

[rescuediver009]

I would agree with what you say for the most part. Except about the cars. Yes I would most definetely take it for a test drive first. However on the test drive you don't always have the oppertunity to test out all of the features like curtain airbags, off roading, driver protection in an accident etc. So some times you have to rely on what you are told.
So along with testing out the gear I would have to say that it always must go hand in hand with going to a good dealer(ship) and talk to someone who knows the product and all of its features and benefits that suit you the best. Also the benefits when weighed in contrast versus another model or make.

 

[Quarrior]

Brilliant response. This is exactly why I say go to your LDS, ask questions and rent the gear they want to sell you. If they won't rent what they want you to buy, then find another LDS.

I would agree with what you say for the most part. Except about the cars. Yes I would most definetely take it for a test drive first. However on the test drive you don't always have the oppertunity to test out all of the features like curtain airbags, off roading, driver protection in an accident etc. So some times you have to rely on what you are told.
So along with testing out the gear I would have to say that it always must go hand in hand with going to a good dealer(ship) and talk to someone who knows the product and all of its features and benefits that suit you the best. Also the benefits when weighed in contrast versus another model or make.

 

[yknot]

This is exactly why I say go to your LDS, ask questions and rent the gear they want to sell you. If they won't rent what they want you to buy, then find another LDS.

Sure sounds like good advice but this always falls short in reality. Part of test driving a car is to try features that you are actually qualified to assess. Pieces of dive equipment, like regulators, are tested and rated by the manufacturers on special equipment because it is very hard to quantify otherwise. With all of the vast experience you had with renting, how many different regs did you try? Was there a specific reg that didn't do what it was supposed to do, which is to deliver a breathing gas, on demand, in a quantity sufficient for the current enviroment's requirement? If any specific reg seemed substandard, do you know if it was poorly adjusted or maintained or just a bad design? Did you breath any two regs side by side at a specific depth? Under heavy stress? At 150'? In my area, you won't find top end gear for rent anywhere so that advice to move along is BS. The bottom line is that even Dacor regs, which this board seems to dislike, will do just fine, service issues aside, if no one tells you differently. They would have been sued out of existance if this wasn't true. Just to test your rent first beliefs: As an example, the new Poseidon Xstream Deep regs are highly regarded, at least by this board and the product reviews I've seen. Have you ever actually seen one for sale in a LDS? How about for rent? Would you be willing to test this, as a rental reg, to it's limits, in order to assess it's capabilities?

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think people just make this too hard.

If it were me I'd skip the renting because it's inconvenient and for what it costs to rent a few times you could have purchased.

A reg...I'd get a high end sealed diapragm reg of a brand that I could get parts/service for easily. Simple

A bc...a plate and a wing. A plate is a plate, the harness is just weight belt webbing that you adjust how you like and the wings a near no-brainer.

Fins...any fairly stiff paddle fin will work but here it's nice to try first but this is the one of the few peices that most divers buy before even getting in the pool.

Computer...I don't need one.

You want to get a new diver really diving like crap? Put him in different gear every time he goes diving. LOL Not to mention the fact that they often aren't yet consistant enough to tell whether one piece of equipment works better than another anyway.

Also few shops can afford to have one of everything they sell in rental especially when it comes to new or high end (expensive) models.

 

[rescuediver009]

Sure sounds like good advice but this always falls short in reality. Part of test driving a car is to try features that you are actually qualified to assess. Pieces of dive equipment, like regulators, are tested and rated by the manufacturers on special equipment because it is very hard to quantify otherwise. With all of the vast experience you had with renting, how many different regs did you try? Was there a specific reg that didn't do what it was supposed to do, which is to deliver a breathing gas, on demand, in a quantity sufficient for the current enviroment's requirement?

OF course not, if it didn't breth and give gas, do you think that the LDS and others around the country/world would have it in service? Any reg will give you gas, it is a matter of the brething quality and if you like it.

If any specific reg seemed substandard, do you know if it was poorly adjusted or maintained or just a bad design?

This happens all the time with rental regs. They get forgotten about and do not always perform to their highest ability.

Did you breath any two regs side by side at a specific depth? Under heavy stress?

I don't think that I have ever seen anyone doing that. I think that you are going a little to far as far as the comparison goes. Lets remember that we are trying regs to see which one we like, not doing a review for Rodale's.

At 150'? In my area, you won't find top end gear for rent anywhere so that advice to move along is BS.

Again, I think that you are thinking a little to hard. I don't even think that I have seen a recreational diver as 150 ft. with recreational gear. And the idea is not BS, even if you try a sherwood magnum and end with an ATX50, I think that along with better breathing you will appreciate the quality of the reg a little more versus never having breathed anything else.

The bottom line is that even Dacor regs, which this board seems to dislike, will do just fine, service issues aside, if no one tells you differently

. If you are putting the Dacor's aside for only the reason of parts and service or lack there of, I am not seeing your point of even dacors. Dacor was always a good reg, and they always made good equipment in their day.

Just to test your rent first beliefs: As an example, the new Poseidon Xstream Deep regs are highly regarded, at least by this board and the product reviews I've seen. Have you ever actually seen one for sale in a LDS? How about for rent? Would you be willing to test this, as a rental reg, to it's limits, in order to assess it's capabilities?

Thanks for the test. You proved I was right, I have seen an Xstream at my LDS. And although it is not out for rental to the commoner, I was seriously considering buying one and the shop owner lent me his to try. And this was not the only time. He also lent it out previously. Yes the regulators are highly regarded but wouldn't you wonder if you saw a regulator that is 3-4 times the value of the others on the rental rack? And guess what he even has one for sale in the store. I think that bringing this up in a conversation about first gear purchases is a little redundant as we are obviously talking ercreational diving......