New diver - questions and thoughts on BC setup

[buddhasummer]

Go to the websites I listed and check the prices of various brands. Halcyon is nice gear but IMO not worth the premium prices you pay. You can get equal quality for less. ScubaPro is also rather spendy. Dan offers some good suggestions of alternate brands to look into. In the end it's largely down to budget and personal preference. Drag is not something I'd be concerned about unless your diving a way oversized wing or a sail.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have sent a few bpw's to that area of the world. Most have gone with the HOG 32 lb wing I carry with a steel plate and basic harness. No sta needed. A couple went with the 23 lb wing and al plate. But they were sure they would only be using al 80's or 63's and not doing any cold water stuff. I have an article on BPW's that I email to those who request it and pm me an email address. It goes into options, accessories, and adjustments.

 

[buddhasummer]

Add Jim to my list of recommendations, I've bought stuff of him before nice prices, great service. FWIW I live in Japan and freight was very reasonable. Thanks again Jim. OP, I'd recommend you taking Jim up on his offer re article a very worthwhile read.

 

[halocline]

It's nice to see a new diver thinking clearly about the advantages of a BP/W. I have a few comments to add to the already excellent advice you've received.

1) The padded plate and shoulder straps don't add any comfort in the water, if anything they reduce comfort. Don't forget, the weight loading is completely different in the water, and there's essentially no pull on your shoulders at all. Your wetsuit provides plenty of padding between the plate and your back, likewise between the webbing harness and your shoulders. You can get softer webbing than the standard resin-filled webbing that's typically used. This is the stuff commonly used for crotch straps. Webbing is inexpensive; I suggest you start with the stiffer stuff that most people use, and if you find it uncomfortable, try the softer resin-free webbing. The stiffer webbing is a little easier to get in and out of.

2) The plate provides a relatively flat hard surface that spreads out the point of contact between your back and the tank. This is what provides the great sense of stability that a BP/W offers. Putting a pad in between your wetsuit and the plate will only lessen that stability. Maybe not by much, but definitely try it without a pad before you buy one. You''ll be pleasantly surprised.

3) If you're using AL80s, a steel plate essentially offsets the buoyancy of the tank in a close-to-ideal way, it puts the ballast evenly spread against your body between the two sources of buoyancy (the wing and your lungs). So don't give up on the idea of a steel plate. Not having much ditchable weight in warm water where you don't have much ballast anyway is not nearly the problem it's made out to be in most OW classes.

4) If you are sold on an AL plate, you can approximate the steel plate by putting weights on the cambands. I do this frequently. It's usually better than having all the weight around your hips, but the camband weights are also not ditchable.

Try deep sea supply, and look at caveadventurers.com. Both are excellent places to buy this sort of gear.

 

[waterduck]

Add Jim to my list of recommendations, I've bought stuff of him before nice prices, great service. FWIW I live in Japan and freight was very reasonable. Thanks again Jim. OP, I'd recommend you taking Jim up on his offer re article a very worthwhile read.

Plus 2 on Jim and I don't even own one of his rigs yet. We have emailed back and forth and he has answered a lot of my questions and he has also sent to me his artical on the BP/Wing which I recommend as great reading.Jim has offered to work with me in a pool and set me up when it becomes convienent for me.I don't know of a better way of doing buisness.That means something,at least to me.No doubt,Jim will work with you as he has worked with me even though we live in neighboring States.

 

[dmaziuk]

1) Does the brand matter much for things like harness and backplate. I've seem some by Diving Express that are rather inexpensive, and some by Zeagle that cost a ton more. Is this a case of "you get what you pay for", or is the quality mostly equal?

2) Aluminum or Stainless back plate? 90% of my dives will be in SE Asia oceans with a 3mm wetsuit or even a shorty wetsuit. I'm 6'1" and weigh 185 lbs. With the rental vest BC and rental tanks, I used 9 lbs on a weight belt. (Note: I like the idea of a weight belt, over a heavier BP, so I can ditch weight in an emergency.)
...
5) From what I've read and seen, a full doughnut style wing seems like be best option. Something without bungee cords. Thoughts?

1) If you go STA-less, the slots in the wing may not match the slots in the backplate. I've a jigsaw and am not afraid to use it but YMMV.

2) I'm 6.1, ~188 lbs give or take and wore 9lbs last time I dived in a rental BCD. With an Al backplate, (empty) Hollis #25 wing (no STA), Al80 and a 2/1 shorty I have 2lbs in the trim pocket, that's all. (I might add another pound when/if I start getting close to 500 psi at the end.) So

• this is pretty much the least amount of luggage weight. You might shave off another pound by going plastic backplate.
• If you go STA or steel plate you'll likely not need any lead at all.
• There is no ditchable weight in this setup -- no belt. Carry an SMB instead.

5) In my Hollis, open the shell, untie the knot on the bungee cord, pull the cord out: no more bungee. I.e. if the shell opens -- that's the important part -- then bungee cord doesn't matter, you should be able to remove it.

 

[Storker]

The padded plate and shoulder straps don't add any comfort in the water, if anything they reduce comfort.

My BP/W system came with a plate padding and padded shoulder straps. They are currently residing in my closet. If you believe that you need it, I can give you a pretty good deal...

 

[phoenix31tt]

1) I've gotten two of the relatively inexpensive ones and i love it... no issues

2) Aluminum I'm 5'11, 160lbs around there. I use a 3mm Long wetsuit and use 2lb additional weight. I dive with an aluminum plate

3) Padding does not add comfort during the dive... only if you have to hall your gear (on your back) for long periods out of water could i see it being an issue. Gearing up on the boat, waiting for others to splash, shore entries... no issues with me thus far

4) Doesn't matter... i started diving with traditional and switched between a couple configurations in my BP. Ended up with the long hose though but you can dive it with whatever hose configuration is good for you

5) For the size of wing you would require (anywhere from 23-32lbs) i see absolutely no need for bungees and yes the donuts work great for getting air out imo.

Other thoughts:

I use a HOG 23LB with aluminum plate and standard hog harness. The thing is very small, very clean easy to pack easy to dive. I got it from Jim Lapenta on this board. You can contact him for more details: Welcome to UDM Aquatic Services - Scuba Training in Washington County Pa

good luck and have fun diving

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hello,

I'm a newly certified PADI OW diver. (With a massive 8 open water dives in total!)

I've been using the standard rental ScubaPro jacket style BC provided by my local dive shop. it seemed OK. On my last dive, one of the DM loaned me his Zeagle Convert BC, and I found the back inflation awesome. It felt much more comfortable in the water, was easier to balance, and I like have my chest area more open. Felt "free-er".

So, that led me to reading about different BC setups, and I stumbled on all the interesting stuff about a back-plate and wings. From what I've read online, and watched on youtube, this seems like a great way to go. Also, most of my dives will be travel dives, so a bp/w setup should be lighter to carry on the plane. Lastly, I really like the idea of a minimalist setup. It fits how I approach a lot of things in life.

That leads to a few questions for the group:

1) Does the brand matter much for things like harness and backplate. I've seem some by Diving Express that are rather inexpensive, and some by Zeagle that cost a ton more. Is this a case of "you get what you pay for", or is the quality mostly equal?

2) Aluminum or Stainless back plate? 90% of my dives will be in SE Asia oceans with a 3mm wetsuit or even a shorty wetsuit. I'm 6'1" and weigh 185 lbs. With the rental vest BC and rental tanks, I used 9 lbs on a weight belt. (Note: I like the idea of a weight belt, over a heavier BP, so I can ditch weight in an emergency.)

3) Thoughts on using a "pure" harness (single piece of continuous nylon) verses some of the comfort harnesses I've seen? My intuition is that a backpad and some padding on the shoulder straps would make for a more comfortable dive.

4) I don't really plan on becoming a cave diver or super technical diver. A lot of the BP/W setups I've seen focus on this pure approach, the long hose regulator setup, etc. Any thoughts on using a BP/W with a standard recreational setup? (shorter hose, yellow octopus, etc.)

5) From what I've read and seen, a full doughnut style wing seems like be best option. Something without bungee cords. Thoughts?

In short, I want something minimalist, light weight for travel, and ideally back inflation. Looking for something comfortable, but simple. (And, hopefully not too expensive - buying dive gear ads up quickly)

I'm going on my first dive trip, 5 days in The Philippines, in about 4 weeks. Am debating if I should rush to purchase a new setup before I go, or wait until I return. I hate the idea of rushing, but it would be nice to dive with a new rig instead of the rental gear. If I wait until after the trip, I'll have more time to shop, but also don't know when the next trip will be, so the gear will just sit in the bag unused for a while.

Apologies for the long list of questions. I live in Hong Kong, and the local dive shops here all aggressively push the recreational ScubaPro and Cressi vest BCs. Hard to get any real advice on alternative setups. It is almost like ScubaPro has close to a monopoly over here.

Any and all feedback welcome.

Thank You

Based on the info provided I'd recommend a (large) Stainless Plate and small wing. (17-20 lbs ) Divers move to a BP&W because they want a better performing BC. Selecting a wing based on a more buoyant exposure suit that you 1) Don't current own 2) May never own 3) Have no idea of how buoyant it maybe will result in a wing far larger than you need for current known application. Wings have to be sized for the most buoyant suit, and when the suit is a "I might buy a 7mm" the wing often ends up oversized even for the 7mm because it's based on a guess. I have this exact conversation 3-4 times a week with newer divers. You should hope to have the opportunity to dive cold water enough to justify both the thicker suit and larger wing.

A 17-20 lbs wing will cover most wetsuits up to 5mm.

I will echo the advice to keep it simple. Resist the temptation to turn your new "high speed, low drag" BP&W back into the the cluttered and inherently buoyant BC that you are trying to escape. Fancy harnesses, harness pads, plate pads etc. add buoyancy and quickly end up being removed. Pads etc. exist to overcome pre purchased misconceptions.

A Stainless plate will weigh about 3 lbs more than a aluminum or Kydex plate for travel. The benefit the the SS plate is realized in the water. Remember you are buying a better BC for a better experience in the water.

Don't get hung up on donuts vs horseshoe wings. Both work fine. Look for the smallest wing that will suit your application.

I would recommend buying your wing and plate from a single vendor. While it quite possible to mix and match there can be compatibility issues and package deals are usually far cheaper than piecing together a collection of parts.

Happy to answer any other questions you might have.

Tobin

 

[phoenix31tt]

A Stainless plate will weigh about 3 lbs more than a aluminum or Kydex plate for travel. The benefit the the SS plate is realized in the water.

What's the benefit of a steel plate over an AL plate in the water btw?


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