new aqua-lung mistral

[Nemrod]

Your problem (in bold above) with the old style harnesses is why I switched to backpacks back in the '70s. My horsecollar goes on first, then the weight belt and the backpack last, in the order I might have to remove them in an emergency. The old harnesses were difficult to remove in a hurry and the backpacks had quick release buckles. I have three of them and use them all the time exclusively.

You misunderstand, the horsecollar does go on first but nonetheless the harness sternum strap passes UNDER the horsecollar bag and is therefore near impossible to reach once in the water and is a safety issue. It cannot be operated with one hand because one hand has to dig under the horsecollar for it and the other to pull the loop, hard to do when one hand has a 4,000 dollar camera and the other is hanging on to a anchor line in a 2 knot current.

The order of equipment donning you give is correct and is the order I use and used.

I was not trying to ditch my gear, I simply wanted to loosen my sternum strap so I could breath, then it progressed downhill from there. Stuff has to work, if the pieces don't work as a system, I know what does, my Oxy Mach V and plate. I don't even know it is on, it is transparent to my diving, easy to adjust, excellent trim, light weight, everything a harness and horsecollar (which are not a system, from two different eras and not compatible with each other) are not.

I love a harness in a t shirt, no BC, fun diving, superb, for more adventurous diving, I guess I am not all that vintage. I hated horsecollars in the day and harnesses as well and went to a wing circa 1976 and never looked back. For me, a horsecollar and a harness are not a compatible system, then or now. A harness alone, great, a horsecollar with a Snug Pack, great, a harness and a horsecollar BC, no thanks. JMO. I have made my last dive--ever--in that mismatched configuration.

N

 

[captain]

Although vintage I don't like the cotton webbing either because of the swelling. I don't have that problem with my military nylon webbing doubles harness.
Another issue is if the loop that retains the D rings is too small it will also prevent the strap from being easily loosened or tightened.
If just surface flotation is the only issue then the small UDT swimmers vest works OK with the strap harness.

 

[Nemrod]

Maybe it is just you guys are bigger around than me or something, lol. All I know is that the shoulder straps fall off constantly unless I tighten the sternum strap up and once I tighten the sternum strap enough to keep the shoulder straps from falling off then I simply cannot breath. That is the way it was, is now and ever shall be with that type of harness on me. I am not going to fuss with one anymore for serious diving regardless of how cool they look.

So, what I am saying is one of those will not be in my overweight baggage to Bonaire, , I do not like or want anything in front of me or on my chest or strapping around my chest, vintage or otherwise.

N

 

[oldmossback]

Nemrod,

I understand the weight limits if you are traveling alone. Only two suitcases and one carry on......however, if your wife is going, you have four suitcases and two carry on's.......Seems you would have enough space for all your doublehoses, if you break down the SPG, BC and Octo hoses........but going lite is the ticket as you say : post 9/11....my BC goes in the suitcase in the planes hold, I carry insurance if it is lost and rent one at the site. same for fins...in the cabin I carry mask, cameras and regs..DH's are a bit heaver yes, and my Mk3 makes the unit about a pound heaver....so I don't carry a Singlehose for backup......if I need to use one, I just rent that also.

 

[simonbeans]

The use of a horsecollar was post harness days. The sternum strap disappeared when the various companies started to make what I call the shell-type backpack. Sportways continued the sternum strap for a while, but switched to the wire cam style buckle on it. The horsecollar is great for surface bouyancy, at depth not so much. It works but is not too comportable with the air bubble behind your head. When the horse collar was in vogue, the back pack invaribly had just shoulder straps, no sternum, with one of the shoulder pieces having some sort of quick release. Trying to mix sternum straps with a horsecollar is difficult at best. So at Sand Dog this year, I opted for an early 1960s style Healthways backpack/plate and put on a sternum strap with the wire cam buckle. Much easier than trying to make the quick release that is used on a typical D ring harness. Even with that, you must be able to fasten your waist/crouch by feel as the horse collar did not allow much downward visual ability.
As a person interested in divng equipment evolution, it is easy to see how nylon replaced cotton and backpacks replaced harnesses. For those of us who try to mix time periods we must be very careful and plan out contingencies with the assortment of gear. Some stuff was just not meant to be used together.

 

[Paladin]

You misunderstand, the horsecollar does go on first but nonetheless the harness sternum strap passes UNDER the horsecollar bag and is therefore near impossible to reach once in the water and is a safety issue. It cannot be operated with one hand because one hand has to dig under the horsecollar for it and the other to pull the loop, hard to do when one hand has a 4,000 dollar camera and the other is hanging on to a anchor line in a 2 knot current.

The order of equipment donning you give is correct and is the order I use and used.

I was not trying to ditch my gear, I simply wanted to loosen my sternum strap so I could breath, then it progressed downhill from there. Stuff has to work, if the pieces don't work as a system, I know what does, my Oxy Mach V and plate. I don't even know it is on, it is transparent to my diving, easy to adjust, excellent trim, light weight, everything a harness and horsecollar (which are not a system, from two different eras and not compatible with each other) are not.

I love a harness in a t shirt, no BC, fun diving, superb, for more adventurous diving, I guess I am not all that vintage. I hated horsecollars in the day and harnesses as well and went to a wing circa 1976 and never looked back. For me, a horsecollar and a harness are not a compatible system, then or now. A harness alone, great, a horsecollar with a Snug Pack, great, a harness and a horsecollar BC, no thanks. JMO. I have made my last dive--ever--in that mismatched configuration.

N

That was what I was talking about when I said I stopped using the old style harness in the '70s and switched to a backpack. I never did like those sternum straps and as soon as I could get one of those new-fangled backpacks, I switched and never went back. I happen to like a horsecollar, if I have to wear a BC for some reason. I don't seem to experience the problems others say that they have with them.

 

[SwimJim]

If an old style harness is rigged correctly, you need only find the tab and pull it and it will come undone. Cotton, rayon, nylon, it makes no difference. I'll photograph it so you can see what I'm talking about. I think Allan supply's a picture on the correct way when you buy a harness.

 

[oldmossback]

I think I understand Nemrods experience with this particular harness/bc combination.........regardless what is said now, he had a bad experience with equipment that did not work well for him: causing him to not being able to breath.......I've had a similar experience concerning not being able to breath, although not with a harness.......just a too tight wet suit and screwed up regulator (my fault with reg adjustments)........

I think after a bad experience, no matter what others may suggest, one tends not to use the equipment or combination of equipment that caused the situation.......

Not being able to pull a complete deep breath, struggling, fighting the growing panic and fighting to keep ones cool tends to make one re-evaluate how one does things.

We all; or most of us have; done things that scared the crap out of us and we never do that again..........I salute Nemrod for not refusing to dive, just evaluates and change the equipment he uses and continues...........

I also thank him for his candor about his experience, this may help others avoid this type situation......it helps me.......locally I use my twin 38s with a harness and Seatec horsecollar bc.........after reading about Nemrods experience, I will be more aware of how I set my chest strap quick release.

 

[duckbill]

Somehow the Navy used harnesses with horsecollars for decades, sternum strap and all. They may still, for all I know.

I am 5'-10", 150 lbs. and haven't had a shoulder strap come off. But, if one did fall off and I couldn't get the darned thing loosened and I was having difficulty breathing my vintage Sea Hawk would be out in an instant. This discussion has reminded me I need to sharpen it!

 

[wilbkr1]

I went ahead bought my first Vintage DA. It shipped today and I expect to have it home in a week. Look forward to seeing what I bought.