Nekton boats may come back!!

[Shasta_man]

Interesting question, Jon. Since there are a lot of arrangements etc that go into a trip that are well beyond control or the ability to "relieve" through reimbursement, it seems the right thing to go on the trip.

However, it would be reasonable to try to mitigate the risk to the company by clearly stating a minimum number of divers and how many divers are booked. The advance booking discount is an interesting idea, though I would think most people would book somewhat well in advance. That's definitely the case in Pacific liveaboards but maybe not in a "local" one. DEfinitely some serious spreadsheet time is needed.

Another point I never sent was that you don't have to necessarily underprice versus the other established operators. While the boat may not have the looks of the others, you could do a lot to the "service" part of the equation to equal what you get from the others. Not to go to the snob end of the spectrum but just things like improve the interior of the boat, better food, a dedicated food staff rather than the "crew guy waiting for you to finish eating so he can" system. Dive guides in some places (to show you, not to force you to follow) rather than the we're (crew and guests) all on vacation vibe I got on my trip. I think people will react to these improvements in their service. It's really how you're treated and little things that makes a lot of the impression. That and you have to have good diving first. You have to have a reason to go there. The boat has to be in good working condition and reasonably ship shape, but not necessarily look like the Aggressors. That's what will bring people. And none of this St Croix great wall diving but most never actually get to those places crap. And got to have a strong captain and a good company to work for which fosters pride in the company employees.

 

[Darnold9999]

Quite simple actually. Unless you tell me up front that there are only x passengers booked and we may have to cancel if we don't get y passengers the trip has to go out. If you don't tell me and you cancel we have a serious problem. If it is a choice between me losing $ and the operator losing money I choose the operator. This is after all under their control not mine. Shifting the loss onto my shoulders is not acceptable.

Feel free to book me on another boat, for the same dive sites, but we have a contract and you not getting enough paying guests is not reason enough to cancel. If you do I won't be back.

On this I think the Nekton did a great job. I do know that the PH boat sometimes sent their passengers out on the Aggressor boat a few times in Belize. Would not surprise me if the other way has happened as well.

 

[diverdoug1]

If a liveaboard has a minimum number of passengers needed for a trip, It should be clearly communicated to the customers at the time of booking.

 

[bmorshead]

I only just heard the news. I have been moving!! I found diving on the Nekton's the best underwater experience for me. The economy is really the problem. I found that diving on these boats was the greatest since you did what you wanted without the "GROUP" dive concept. I have never been more comfortable than on either Nekton. We both want the catamaran ride. The boats are more than big enough to not get in anyone's face ever due to flexibility in their dive schedules. I should know since I hate crouds. Maybe because I was in the water so much.
Best of Luck !! PS: I had hoped to start diving Nekton 4 x year. Finally the time & $$ have come together. Sincerely, bmorshead

 

[scubafanatic]

It's kinda deep into this discussion to be saying this, but the central premise around which you intend to build your liveaboard business (recycling one of the Nekton boats) may represent a false start. It might be better to buy/build a newer smaller boat (12-18 passenger range), focus more on the 'location' you will service, most cost effective/convienient port and airport logistical factors (best home port for boat/easily airport accessable) versus recycling a Nekton boat and then trying to figure out where that boat might be made to work/fit. The boat really is the last priority, you might be putting the cart before the horse.

It will be easier to fill a smaller boat without having to run half-filled $ losing trips. (I'm familiar with the JULIET, it's an old converted sail boat (40 yrs old), it only holds 12 passengers, but I understand that boat is very popular and stays very well booked up, somehow they're running a successful business.)

A smaller capacity boat will lower your fixed costs, and if the business is successful you can afford to add a 2nd boat, increasing fixed costs only as revenues grow enough to support them.

A while back here on SB there was another guy who posted that he was building a custom liveaboard and wanted suggestions on what all the divers here wanted to see on their ideal/dream liveaboard....you might see if you can dig up that thread......there was a TON of GREAT ideas from many experienced liveaboard divers...you'll get a bunch of good design/features ideas.

 

[vladimir]

Feel free to book me on another boat, for the same dive sites, but we have a contract and you not getting enough paying guests is not reason enough to cancel.

Yes, you do have a contract. This is what the Aggressor's says on the subject:

RELEASED PARTIES reserve the right to modify and/or cancel program arrangements due to...passenger bookings which are in the sole discretion of RELEASED PARTIES insufficient to permit a charter.

So "not getting enough paying guests" is reason enough to cancel, according to this particular contract. I would be surprised if other liveaboards don't have a similar clause in theirs. Whether it makes good business sense to cancel is a separate question.

 

[mike_s]

yeah... but you cancel multiple times on people and each one of them tells 10 or more friends, who tell 10 friends.... etc.

It gets all over the internet..... on multiple forums.....

oh wait.... that's what happened to Nekton! D'oh!

 

[tarponchik]

Yes, you do have a contract. This is what the Aggressor's says on the subject:
So "not getting enough paying guests" is reason enough to cancel, according to this particular contract. I would be surprised if other liveaboards don't have a similar clause in theirs. Whether it makes good business sense to cancel is a separate question.

I'm sure that you, being a libertarian, experience an orgasm every time you read crap like this, but I do not consider this to be a fair business practice. In a contract, both sides should be equal. I pay my money several months ahead of the trip but if something happens and I can't go, my best expectations are limited to getting credit for another trip. And if the price goes up, I'll have to pay extra. If providers have the right to cancel their services, then customers also should have equal rights to cancel their reservation and get full refund, at least to a certain deadline. This is how it works with hotels, and I do not see why dive operators should be any different.

 

[Damselfish]

it's true pretty much every dive op covers themselves with ridiculous contracts, waivers, etc. (Enough to make you not want to use any of them, but then where does that get you?) What matters more to me is what they are actually have a history of doing in reality.

 

[vladimir]

I'm sure that you, being a libertarian, experience an orgasm every time you read crap like this

I was responding to Darnold999, who invoked the contract. I'd rather not sidetrack the thread with a philosophical discussion.

but I do not consider this to be a fair business practice. In a contract, both sides should be equal.

You would have a hard time entering into a contract with a large corporation if you insisted upon equality. Contracts should be agreed upon by informed parties who are not being coerced. I don't think there's a lot of potential for coercion in a liveaboard agreement.

I pay my money several months ahead of the trip but if something happens and I can't go, my best expectations are limited to getting credit for another trip. And if the price goes up, I'll have to pay extra. If providers have the right to cancel their services, then customers also should have equal rights to cancel their reservation and get full refund, at least to a certain deadline. This is how it works with hotels, and I do not see why dive operators should be any different.

That is how you would like the contract to read. Who should coerce the liveaboard to agree to that?

Many hotels let you cancel with 24 hours notice because they generally run at less than 100% occupancy, and because they want to retain their good reputation and the public's goodwill. Liveaboards have the same concerns, except it is harder for them to fill a canceled spot on short notice. (Hotels in less highly-trafficked areas often have less forgiving cancellation policies, like a liveaboard's.) That is what we are discussing, how the damage to their reputation and customer goodwill compares to the damage of running a charter at a loss.