Nekton boats may come back!!

[tregrrr]

I have just this exactly this with Mike Ball. They sold the "fly+dive" packagge. I left Cairns by plane to Lizard Island, where we took the boat and stayed diving for 4 days while we are returning to Cairns. The boat droped us in Cairns.
I live in Brazil and dove with Nekton twice. I really loved and I'm happy with the possibility to dive again.
I hope it happens and I will consider to dive with the Nekton again. Just as an idea, think about to do a trip flying to southern bahamas, taking the boat there ans returning to Ft. Lauderdale during a week.
Ronaldo

ronaldo, the problem with that is these SWATH boats are pigs to drive around... at 8.5 MPH (7 kn) they burn truck loads of fuel and consume another valuable resource on charters: crew sleep hours. Everyone likes to say "they are the crew; it's their job!" but, realistically speaking, they are still human. There are only so many hours in a day and when you consume the crew doing long transits, there is significant decrease in alertness during dive operations. While the whole crew does not have to be up for the entire transit, enough have to be awake for evolutions such as anchoring or mooring that it impacts who the bright eyed and bushytailed happy dive guides are in the morning. Also, despite "only" requiring the crew to get up for the evolution still interrupts their sleep-wake patterns and causes much more than the 1 hour of work.

All in all, reduced travelling by the boat benefits all involved:
lower fuel cost = lower charter cost
less wear on vessel= lower maintenance requirement
Less demand on nocturnal crew= less burnout and turn-over.

These Swath boats would be ideal in some off the beaten path nickel sized island chain where there is awe-inspiring diving only 5 miles from an airport with an accessible dock. An hour or two repositioning is functional. 10 hour overnight 'jaunts' thats when you start to have crewing issues. If you have to allot more crew to the carter, to compensate for this increased demand, then your wages go up and the per man gratuity split goes down. I have worked under both conditions: 4-5 man crew and 10 man crew on fungible sized boats. I tell you that the crew is much more willing to put out for a 500-600 tip envelope each man than for a diluted 175-300. But that willing and eager equates to faster burnout. It really is a fine art to find the happy median, and that is one small detail that contributes to making or breaking a crew. As Frank (wookie) said earlier, the crew makes or breaks the boat.


BTW as someone who has worked charters both in diving industry and Luxury Yachts, I am willing to say based on the posts Wookie has made which I have read, HE strikes me very much a Captain I would actually enjoy working under. Almost enough to wish I was American even :mooner: .That guttural reaction in my mind lends credence to much of his advice to the OP...

 

[ybnormal]

I'd go back. Never was on the Rorqual but have been on the Pilot. I loved the deck space and never really felt crowed onboard. I thought how they ran the dive deck just opening for your convenience was great.

 

[LEVIATHAN11]

This is for Leviathon

I do not know who you are as you haven't stated your name. However, you have made some very serious accusations as to my character and integrity.

Please send me either a reply or a personal message so that I can know who you are. If you are going to attack me like this, the least you can do is allow me to defend myself.

The idea of getting the Rorqual back to sea is a big venture. As far as the Costs that are being posted such as "tens of millions of dollars" or "6 to 7 million" I strongly disagree. A brand new boat can be built for the 6 million dollars and would have none of the stigma attached.

I will not go into the actual costs of this venture because they are simply not relevant to the discussion. I came here to get input from all of my fellow divers about how the would feel to have the Rorqual back in service. For those of you that have given me that input, I am grateful.

As for the name of the vessel, of course it would be changed. As for JD, I have no intention of having him as a business partner. He wants to be as far away from the diving industry as he possibly can. He is fully aware that he is "the most hated man in the business" and just wants to go away.

So let's let JD go away and focus on the idea of diving.

Leviathon, please contact me.

Kris Pierce

kris, check your email, you know quite well who i am, and i don't want to have to drag more skeletons out of your closet. I have stated all of the facts and opinions I intend to present on here.

I find scuba board (for the most part) to be a gigantic network of Charlatans blowing smoke up each other's asses for a lack of anything else to do.

To claim any of the facts i have stated as an "attack" on you simply makes you sound like a scared politician (and eerily like JD) attempting to silence the creator of ideas for others to consider. This is a public forum, where the creation of ideas and the presentation of debate is meant to flow freely, a beautiful American past time. To attempt to silence anyone with a voice attempting to share the truth about something, or anyone with an idea for the consideration of those interested for that matter, represents what i see as a vast evil present in today's society.

You can attempt to slander me all you like (something you and I both know is nothing new for you) but the ideas i presented here are no longer my own, and are alive in the minds of anyone who reads them. To discredit me will only influence others, like me, who have worked with you to reinforce the truth about what i have said. And mark my words, They are reading everything in this entry with great amusement.
In the words of the great Obi-Wan Kenobi: "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". hahaha, who doesnt love a good star wars reference?

 

[LEVIATHAN11]

ronaldo, the problem with that is these SWATH boats are pigs to drive around... at 8.5 MPH (7 kn) they burn truck loads of fuel and consume another valuable resource on charters: crew sleep hours. Everyone likes to say "they are the crew; it's their job!" but, realistically speaking, they are still human. There are only so many hours in a day and when you consume the crew doing long transits, there is significant decrease in alertness during dive operations. While the whole crew does not have to be up for the entire transit, enough have to be awake for evolutions such as anchoring or mooring that it impacts who the bright eyed and bushytailed happy dive guides are in the morning. Also, despite "only" requiring the crew to get up for the evolution still interrupts their sleep-wake patterns and causes much more than the 1 hour of work.

All in all, reduced travelling by the boat benefits all involved:
lower fuel cost = lower charter cost
less wear on vessel= lower maintenance requirement
Less demand on nocturnal crew= less burnout and turn-over.

These Swath boats would be ideal in some off the beaten path nickel sized island chain where there is awe-inspiring diving only 5 miles from an airport with an accessible dock. An hour or two repositioning is functional. 10 hour overnight 'jaunts' thats when you start to have crewing issues. If you have to allot more crew to the carter, to compensate for this increased demand, then your wages go up and the per man gratuity split goes down. I have worked under both conditions: 4-5 man crew and 10 man crew on fungible sized boats. I tell you that the crew is much more willing to put out for a 500-600 tip envelope each man than for a diluted 175-300. But that willing and eager equates to faster burnout. It really is a fine art to find the happy median, and that is one small detail that contributes to making or breaking a crew. As Frank (wookie) said earlier, the crew makes or breaks the boat.


BTW as someone who has worked charters both in diving industry and Luxury Yachts, I am willing to say based on the posts Wookie has made which I have read, HE strikes me very much a Captain I would actually enjoy working under. Almost enough to wish I was American even :mooner: .That guttural reaction in my mind lends credence to much of his advice to the OP...

This is quite insightful. You sound like you've been through the hell yourself mate.

 

[diversteve]

I was on the Pilot to Cay Sal once. I'd be interested in doing that again on a refitted Rorqual. And might talk 5-6 of my dive group into it also. We had 31/32 on our trip - I'm not sure I'd want to do that again. Mostly I didn't like the crowding on the dive deck while gearing up. And the line at dinner. And too many cameras in the rinse bucket.

It would partly depend on the origin though - from the left coast sometimes the Bahamas are tough to do to meet a late afternoon/early evening departure. My buddy did get to the CEX1 from here via BahamasAir one Saturday. I'm not sure if you could do that from SoCal or the PNW though - we're just that one hour closer.

I don't know the logistics/costs involved but what about a USVI/BVI itinerary? Maybe board in Roadtown (Tortola) as there's a lot of fast ferries from St. Thomas to there also. It should be possible to land in St. Thomas in the morning and be in Roadtown by mid-afternoon. From there you could hit Anegada, Virgin Gorda, the Dogs, Indians, Norman, Cooper, Salt Islands (the Rhone) etc. easily in a couple hours - we did all of those on a morning Newton dive boat from Virgin Gorda daily with DiveBVI. It's also very scenic and there are a lot of potential dinghy day-trips for non-divers. Some spots could even be reached by kayak with a little planning. We had a couple on our boat that didn't dive in the afternoons so were always interested in shore excursions.

There's also a minor airfield at Beef Island on Tortola - I don't know who flies in there. And IIRC San Jose, PR (AA hub) is a quick flight from St. Thomas. We had an easy flight to St. Thomas from the NY area (Newark) that arrived around 1PM. And customs/immigration back and forth is pretty dialed in with all the daily ferry traffic.

One other thing I've experienced on both of my trips, TC Explorer was the more recent one. The technology for viewing/editing images or videos seems to be always about a step behind the curve. And often non-functional. I understand the logistics involved in getting current electronics in port but on both trips a member of the crew was (mostly) unsuccessful in getting the basics to work. Just about everybody on our most recent trip had a laptop full of images/video but we lacked the cable to output it to the big LCD tv in the lounge. So we all huddlled around laptops to view the days shots. Except near the end of the trip when one of the pax found a cable to use. Not suggesting (nor do I want) a flatscreen in every room but having it working in the public areas would be a plus.

One other nice touch I've experienced twice on land-based trips is that at the end of the week the diveop presented us with a custom list of the sites/depths we dove. Taken off their log. I keep an electronic logbook on the Internet so it's handy to update that on my return. One nice thing the Explorer crew did this time was compile/print a list of names/e-mail addresses of everybody on the cruise. Small things but appreciated.

You mentioned being less concerned about pax getting to where you locate the boat. But it's a consideration. I won't consider the CEX Saba/St. Kitts trip due to the logistics/cost of flying out of two different airports. I would've also been reluctant to do the Nekton trip out of Aguadilla with the long shuttle ride over from San Juan. On the return the time it takes to get back to the airport might mean the difference between having to over nite or not for left coast divers.

my .02

 

[vladimir]

I have never taken a Nekton cruise. I'm not particularly susceptible to sea-sickness and I'm not particularly price sensitive. That was the niche, for the most part. So suggesting that they add TVs, 1000-thread-count sheets, or whatever, is a non-starter. Their ability to charge a higher price is capped by the Aggressor/Peter Hughes fleet, and, ultimately, they were unable to deliver a decent product at the price they could get. Throwing a multimillion-dollar refit into the equation doesn't improve the prospects. There is a limit to how much you can charge to pack 32 people onto one dive deck and one dive site--when it gets close to the $2700 the Belize Aggressor charges its 18 passengers, people will opt for that (or similar). Yes, there were a lot of loyal Nekton-ites; some liked the stability, some liked the space, and some liked the crew, but they were all getting a bargain--Nekton was charging less than it took to sustain the business on a long-term basis. Faced with paying the true cost, many would "jump ship."

 

[diverdoug1]

Cappy Jon is correct.

If the Bahamas itineraries were to be considered we would certaily leave out of the Bahamas. This is not only more cost effective, but also provides more diving oppurtunities as we don't have so far to travel on our way out and back.

I know this would cost prospective clients a bit more in flights, but I feel it is the best way do run that itinerary all around.

If you ran out of Ft. lauderdale, I would be a repeat customer. If you run out of rhe Bahamas, I have better options for a liveaboard. I got hooked on Nekton beacause I got to do Bahamas itineraries without an international flight (actually no flight - I just drove to Ft. Lauderdale). My wife and i used to go on 3 Nekton trips every year (the vast majority leaving out of Ft. Lauderdale). If you are going to give this venture a go, I would suggest providing the BEST service possible, and charging what is necessary to keep the bussiness going. Lots of people on this post have told you that they liked leaving out of Florida, don't ignore that.

 

[diverdoug1]

Let me clear up a few things as far as cost of having a boat leave out of the US. The cost of insurance is the same. Our cost for inspection & registration of the Aqua Cat, a boat of similar size to the Nekton run between $15,000 & $20,000 per year. I believe Nekton paid under $2,000 per year. The reason we moved the Blackbeard boats out of the US was the cost of getting out & in. This cost had increase to over $75,000 was continuing to go up. We had to send paperwork for each departure and arrival to USCG, Customs, Immigration & Agriculture. It took one employee to just comply with this. We also has to get a special hazardous waste dumster for anything that came off our boat since they considered our boats because they had been outside the US. We had to schedule a aggriculture officer to come to our boats to open the container. If they caught anyone putting something in the regular trash they hit us with a fine. This included someone walking onto the boats with a beer can and then departing & putting in a regular trash barrel. When we left we had over $30,000 of fines pending. We could appeal & did. We never lost one, but they a lot took time. There is also about $75/person taxes extra for trips leaving out of the US versus the Bahamas.

The Nekton itinerary out of Florida was great from spring to fall, but when the weather patterns changed they had problems. There was no place for them to dive or hide with the strong west winds you get in the winter. You would be wise to operate out of one spot year around. Most Caribbean liveaboards operate 49 to 50 trips per year. Nekton only average about 42. It is difficult to cover your fixed costs with that number of trips especially with what they charged.

Bruce

Well Bruce, as a loyal Aquacat customer, and a former loyal Nekton customer, the only way I would dive on the Rorqual would be if it did the Bahamas leaving out of Florida, OR it's dive destination was somwhere other than the Bahamas (such as Belize or the Cayman Islands).

 

[mike_s]

Two liveaboard operators out of the Ft Lauderdale area have gone out of business in the past year and another (Blackbeards) moved out of Miami a couple years ago.

It might not have been able to support 2-4 larger iveboard boats there, but it can prob support one and might be a target rich area for people who don't want to have to pay to fly to the Bahamas.

 

[diverdoug1]

Two liveaboard operators out of the Ft Lauderdale area have gone out of business in the past year and another (Blackbeards) moved out of Miami a couple years ago.

It might not have been able to support 2-4 larger iveboard boats there, but it can prob support one and might be a target rich area for people who don't want to have to pay to fly to the Bahamas.

The cost of the flight to the Bahamas is not they main reason some people want to leave out of Florida. I met a number of divers who liked being able to drive to the port of embarkation. I really liked being able to bring all my underwater photo gear in nice heavy Pelican cases, not having to tell my wife she can't pack enough clothes and shoes for a month (I know- who needs freakin shoes on a liveaboard?), and not having to deal with a$$hole TSA. Some divers drove from as far away as Maryland and Ohio.