Negative entry vs Using a downline

[PfcAJ]

Probably not. My reg is good for a couple of breaths even when the tank is off.

This doesn't mean that a pre-dive check wouldn't have caught it, but that very few divers actually do an effective one.

If you don't have the discipline to do a proper equipment check then you shouldn't be hot dropping. Also, if you're diving a proper balanced rig, if you point your flippers down and move em back and forth you end up on the surface.

Its a whole thing.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what about the possibility of gear coming loose due to the impact with the water? One time I had a fin come off that way. Another time I almost lost an SMB. I suppose one could argue that with a negative entry you can just dive after that sinking fin, and if gear is properly fitted or stowed it shouldn't come off in the first place. But I'd rather get situated on the surface first if at all possible.

 

[danvolker]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what about the possibility of gear coming loose due to the impact with the water? One time I had a fin come off that way. Another time I almost lost an SMB. I suppose one could argue that with a negative entry you can just dive after that sinking fin, and if gear is properly fitted or stowed it shouldn't come off in the first place. But I'd rather get situated on the surface first if at all possible.

If you were new to diving, then gear might come off on an entry off the platform....What I see off of many thousands of dives on charterboats in S fl, is that the people that dive alot, will have gear attached snugly, it will be streamlined, and it will not come off when they jump in.....

I'm not suggesting this as the end all solution for new divers--it has a real learning curve for them, and this proper gear configuration and snug connecting, is part of this.
I can honestly say, that I have never had a fin come off on an entry.....but when I buy a fin, I treat this like buying a high end running shoe or ski boot....I get a perfect fit...if it needs an orthotic, it get's applied either to the fin or the bootie, and I have an exact fit and tightness that feels comfortable, and like an extension of my body. It can't come off.....Every time I rinse the fins, I inspect the straps on the DiveR Freedive fins, as these are open heel with strap--and you always want to have a "like new" condition heel strap--meaning NEVER one that looks like it is on it's last legs.
My smb is clipped if I use one....though often I am towing a torpedo float, so there would be no need for an smb.

If my camera began leaking 15 feet down, I would have instant eye contact with my buddy, and we would both be instantly aborting the dive and in full "catastrophic emergency mode" for the leaking camera

 

[LiteHedded]

hot dropping is a whole thing. the down line was much more work but gave 100% success actually hitting the wreck
going down the line with all that gear on in 2.5 knot current wasn't for nancies but it was worth the effort to only have to do it once. when we missed the rbj and ended up in 250ish feet of water looking at sand it was a fairly expensive blunder

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what about the possibility of gear coming loose due to the impact with the water? One time I had a fin come off that way. Another time I almost lost an SMB. I suppose one could argue that with a negative entry you can just dive after that sinking fin, and if gear is properly fitted or stowed it shouldn't come off in the first place. But I'd rather get situated on the surface first if at all possible.

I lost a couple weights backrolling off a boat once. Good thing I wasn't planning to do a negative entry, since I wasn't going anywhere but back to the boat for more weights at that point.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2014 at 01:09 PM ----------

If my camera began leaking 15 feet down, I would have instant eye contact with my buddy, and we would both be instantly aborting the dive and in full "catastrophic emergency mode" for the leaking camera

Hmmm ... the only time I've ever seen anyone getting themselves into a potentially dangerous situation on a hot drop it was because they were fiddling with their camera on the drop and not paying attention to what was going on around them. Happened in the Maldives on a wall that had a hard bottom of about 400 feet. Fortunately, I grabbed her before she dropped below her MOD.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

hot dropping is a whole thing. the down line was much more work but gave 100% success actually hitting the wreck
going down the line with all that gear on in 2.5 knot current wasn't for nancies but it was worth the effort to only have to do it once. when we missed the rbj and ended up in 250ish feet of water looking at sand it was a fairly expensive blunder

In a perfect world, you would have been able to experiment with a hot drop on the Hydro Atlantic at 165 feet deep, and some other "easier to hit" wrecks, prior to doing one of the most challenging wrecks in South Florida with a hot drop, your first day....and with the captain having no idea of your descent speed because of no previous test runs like the Hydro.


And /or....If you went on the RBJ with someone that has done many hot drops on it, and the captain dropping is the one this person is used to....
I don't know that this should be the FIRST HOT DROP that you would want to try in S Fl currents and tech depths....

When I first started doing the deep wrecks with George and Bill, it was me just following them---and prior to this, I was used to following Frank Hammett ( Palm Beach's original Guerilla Diver--that found all of the Palm Beach reefs and sites in the 50's) --and no one was as fast as Frank...not as fast straight down, and not as fast swimming along the 130 foot deep ledge on the way to the Hole in the Wall --which we did almost every weekend from 1983 to 91. When you get used to trying to keep up with Frank, even George with a scooter is not out of the question

When I do the RBJ, I have sucked all the air out of my wing, and while I can swim this rig up from the bottom without the wing, I am going to be about 6 pounds negative or so as I jump off...and will have no problem falling head first at a good speed....But...I won't just fall headfirst and vertical--I will be swimming down, from the moment I see Bill and George through the bubbles of jumping in, and we have formed up--and are all heading down at the same medium cruise swim stroke, but straight down. It would not take long....I never timed it, but normally we would be seeing the rigging on the top of the RB ( about 215 or so? ) around a minute after non-stop swimming down like this with the negative weighting....and I would be blowing into my nose a great deal on the descent....Often never taking my hand off the nose on the mask, because the blowing into it would be almost continuous.

Following someone else, makes this very easy....

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2014 at 04:21 PM ----------

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2014 at 01:09 PM ----------



Hmmm ... the only time I've ever seen anyone getting themselves into a potentially dangerous situation on a hot drop it was because they were fiddling with their camera on the drop and not paying attention to what was going on around them. Happened in the Maldives on a wall that had a hard bottom of about 400 feet. Fortunately, I grabbed her before she dropped below her MOD.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I am sure there are "new"-advanced divers, that have skills, but don't have all the peripheral awareness issues handled yet....
But when it is like ten thousand in the number of hot drops you have done, it is as easy to see whether your camera is leaking, as it is to check your pressure gauge or computer without losing track of exactly where your buddy is every second, and what they are doing.
But I believe your point is valid--that divers new to hot drops, should not be playing with cameras over a deep bottom

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

When I do the RBJ, I have sucked all the air out of my wing, and while I can swim this rig up from the bottom without the wing, I am going to be about 6 pounds negative or so as I jump off...and will have no problem falling head first at a good speed....

If I'm correct in thinking that's a 250-foot dive, I should think you'd be more than about 6 lbs negative. That's about how much gas you're carrying in an AL80 ... and hopefully you're carrying a bit more for that dive.

A set of twin 100's is going to put you about 15 lbs negative at the beginning of the dive, and even that's a marginal amount of gas to take on a 250-foot dive.

I am sure there are "new"-advanced divers, that have skills, but don't have all the peripheral awareness issues handled yet....
But when it is like ten thousand in the number of hot drops you have done, it is as easy to see whether your camera is leaking, as it is to check your pressure gauge or computer without losing track of exactly where your buddy is every second, and what they are doing.
But I believe your point is valid--that divers new to hot drops, should not be playing with cameras over a deep bottom

It gets back to that "environment" issue ... your skills get developed around the environment you're used to diving in. When you put yourself into a different environment, most of your skills are transferrable ... but not all of them will be. You have to take some time and do some dives to adapt.

This is why I object to the assumption that people who don't dive a specific way are somehow "deficient". They may not be, in the environment they're used to diving in ... in fact, in their environment they may be less deficient than you would be if you were to bring your considerable skills and experience into their environment ... it would take some dives to learn how to dive that environment effectively. And in the meantime, expect to make a few mistakes ... all humans do.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

In a perfect world, you would have been able to experiment with a hot drop on the Hydro Atlantic at 165 feet deep, and some other "easier to hit" wrecks, prior to doing one of the most challenging wrecks in South Florida with a hot drop, your first day....and with the captain having no idea of your descent speed because of no previous test runs like the Hydro.


And /or....If you went on the RBJ with someone that has done many hot drops on it, and the captain dropping is the one this person is used to....
I don't know that this should be the FIRST HOT DROP that you would want to try in S Fl currents and tech depths....

When I first started doing the deep wrecks with George and Bill, it was me just following them---and prior to this, I was used to following Frank Hammett ( Palm Beach's original Guerilla Diver--that found all of the Palm Beach reefs and sites in the 50's) --and no one was as fast as Frank...not as fast straight down, and not as fast swimming along the 130 foot deep ledge on the way to the Hole in the Wall --which we did almost every weekend from 1983 to 91. When you get used to trying to keep up with Frank, even George with a scooter is not out of the question

When I do the RBJ, I have sucked all the air out of my wing, and while I can swim this rig up from the bottom without the wing, I am going to be about 6 pounds negative or so as I jump off...and will have no problem falling head first at a good speed....But...I won't just fall headfirst and vertical--I will be swimming down, from the moment I see Bill and George through the bubbles of jumping in, and we have formed up--and are all heading down at the same medium cruise swim stroke, but straight down. It would not take long....I never timed it, but normally we would be seeing the rigging on the top of the RB ( about 215 or so? ) around a minute after non-stop swimming down like this with the negative weighting....and I would be blowing into my nose a great deal on the descent....Often never taking my hand off the nose on the mask, because the blowing into it would be almost continuous.

Following someone else, makes this very easy....

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2014 at 04:21 PM ----------



I am sure there are "new"-advanced divers, that have skills, but don't have all the peripheral awareness issues handled yet....
But when it is like ten thousand in the number of hot drops you have done, it is as easy to see whether your camera is leaking, as it is to check your pressure gauge or computer without losing track of exactly where your buddy is every second, and what they are doing.
But I believe your point is valid--that divers new to hot drops, should not be playing with cameras over a deep bottom

go big or go home I always say. I'm no weenie.

but yea swing and a miss. I did get to do the hydro the day before and the lowrance. but rbj was the only one we hot dropped.

 

[PfcAJ]

Going down the line in that current on the Lowrance was interesting, to say the least.

 

[danvolker]

If I'm correct in thinking that's a 250-foot dive, I should think you'd be more than about 6 lbs negative. That's about how much gas you're carrying in an AL80 ... and hopefully you're carrying a bit more for that dive.

A set of twin 100's is going to put you about 15 lbs negative at the beginning of the dive, and even that's a marginal amount of gas to take on a 250-foot dive.


... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I do this dive with dual 80's and a 30 cu ft bottle of pure O2. The 80's are "jacked". Still, I am not very heavy....there have been occasions when I jumped in and someone had a scooter issue or something, and I had to stay at the surface--and swimming was an easy way to do this...although by this time, you know you have blown the drop, and you resign yourself to adding gas to the wing, and the likelihood of getting back on the boat for a re-drop.. This is an issue that either gets resolved in about 5 seconds, or it is back on the boat we go....


Of course, either I am using a very thin freedive wetsuit that is essentially neutral itself-almost like lycra...or a dry suit. Never a thick wetsuit.

---------- Post added April 2nd, 2014 at 04:47 PM ----------

Going down the line in that current on the Lowrance was interesting, to say the least.

Did rock climbing come to mind ?