Need suggestions about budget dive computer

[cascas]

Seriously?!? You think that's it inappropriate to have an objective discussion about how different computers calculate NDLs unless the person doing the talking has actually used those computers?!?!

Also, I didn't say that Suunto is "too conservative". I said it's MORE conservative than other computers. Saying it is "too" conservative is a personal judgment that each person has to make for themselves. In that vein, I also said that I have decided for myself that I want a computer that is less conservative. If I'm wrong about it being more conservative than other computers, please elaborate.

It's nice that yours works fine for you. But, do you think that what works for you should be taken by everyone else to mean that it should be just fine for them, too? If it's not just fine for them, do you think that means that they should like or lump it (because it's good enough for you)? Or should they be able to come to a place like these forums and get objective information that they can use to decide for themselves what will work best for them?

I happened to read this thread before I ever posted anything on this board:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...zers/305374-so-you-want-buy-new-computer.html

The very first post offers a handy table comparing different computers. Since I'm just going for OW certification, I mostly just looked at dive times for 60'. 57 minutes for Oceanic and some others. "40 - 48" minutes for Suunto (the most conservative in the chart). That seems pretty significant, to me. But, obviously, what do I know? I'm just an ignorant newb, right? Except that I have read up on a number of places around Florida, the Caribbean, and other places, where I think I'd like to dive someday. And many of those will offer depths of 60' or more. I intend to work towards Advanced and Deep certs as soon as I finish OW so that I can be ready to do those deeper dives when the opportunity comes along.

We are obviously different on this. I like my equipment (in whatever activity I'm engaged) to be safe (as a first priority) and then be the least restrictive that it can be. I have not seen a single post anywhere that accused the Oceanic, Sherwood, etc., algorithms of being unsafely aggressive. I.e. they seem, by all accounts, to be safe. Comparing the numbers to the USN and NOAA dive tables, the Oceanic numbers are generally a fair bit more conservative. And the data shows (at least, the data in that one chart, plus some other places I looked) that they are less restrictive than Suunto. Personally, maximizing time actually DIVING (SAFELY) is my number one priority in choosing a computer. I want to come up when I am ready. Not because my computer has decided to make me based on a calculation that yields a result that is WAY less than what NOAA or even PADI tables would dictate.

Now, I do realize that many will say that the NDLs allowed on second and subsequent dives is what is really important. And if I could find a chart like the one I linked, that compared these same computers for repetitive dives, I would love to see it and I would post it. Maybe what "they" say about Suunto would be revealed to be totally unfounded when you look at NDLs on repetitive dives. I don't know.

You don't do dives where you are limited by your Suunto, but how can you feel like you're doing anyone a good service to make blanket statements rejecting an objective discussion of how the different computers calculate NDLs while at the same time offering your own anecdotes about how the Suunto algorithm is totally adequate, implying that everyone else should be just fine with?



And? Did I post something that was incorrect? If I did, I hope someone will correct me. I may not have any dive experience, but I am dang good at research. Particularly product research. The OP was regarding shopping for a product. I tried to be helpful - by offering factual data - not anecdotes and personal judgments based on things that are not relevant to the OP. I'm seriously just trying to be helpful. What am I doing wrong?

And, thanks! My OW class was supposed to start next week, but some others in my group had scheduling issues, so now we're not starting until late October. The wait is killing me!

You want a computer that is less conservative? Why? Your limits during your first x dives will most l likely be your gas supply. As I said your reasoning doesn't make sense.

 

[scubadada]

I believe blindly shooting for a computer that will maximize one's dive time based on a comparison of published numbers is a fool's errand. If one really wants to maximize dive time, then why limit oneself to even the Sherwood or Oceanic that the numbers suggest might be "less conservative" than other recreational dive computers, since there are certainly ways to still further maximize dive time beyond that.

The most liberal computer I have had was a Cochran. It was a very good computer, I liked it very much, but I have now been diving Oceanic, utilizing the DSAT algorithm, for many years. Liberal or conservative are relative terms. I have dived many computers and algorithms and have found the one for me. I can say that in light of both reasonable experience and education on the topic.

To each their own, good diving, Craig

 

[Centrals]

You want a computer that is less conservative? Why? Your limits during your first x dives will most l likely be your gas supply. As I said your reasoning doesn't make sense.

How about if he can lay his hands on a 15L?

 

[cascas]

How about if he can lay his hands on a 15L?

I've seen people drain 15 liter tanks within 20 minutes.

 

[cjhixon]

Nothing against computers but, if I were just getting started in diving, OW I. I would just use dive tables. I've been diving since the mid-1980s and don't own a computer. My son just got certified this year and they really pushed buying a dive computer, IMHO it just isn't needed for basic diving and better to get a good working knowledge of dive tables. When you start going deep regularly or using mixed gases that might be a good reason to go after a computer. Everyone has an opinion. The only reason I would consider buying a computer early would be for a convent dive logbook. On a budget, computer would be low on my list; better to spend the money on your next phase of diving after getting some experience.

Of course this doesn't really answer the OP. Can't speak to dive computers but, Suunto makes great products.

Carl


Cheers, Carl

 

[Candiru]

Back to the original post. I would vote for the Geo 2.0. I have had zero issues with mine. I also was wary at first about reliability issue. Specifically battery drain. I called oceanic directly they said that battery drain issue was a design issue on the Geo 1 which was resolved with a firmware update. The other time it occurs is with off brand coin cell batteries.

 

[eelnoraa]

The Scubapro/Uwatec Aladin Tec 2G is an excellent dive computer. It sounds like you are able to get it at a good price making it an exceptional value. You might want to give the Scubapro/SubGear XP-10 a look if it is available.

Both are easy to use & read, very reliable with a user changeable battery. The battery life is excellent (2-3 years or 200-300 dives).

Yes, Tech 2G is an exellent all around computer EXCEPT that lousy display. I still love mine. Nothing in that price range offer as much. I am still young enough to read the screen. But man, that screen sucks

 

[stuartv]

You want a computer that is less conservative? Why? Your limits during your first x dives will most l likely be your gas supply. As I said your reasoning doesn't make sense.

Because I don't want to buy another computer after x dives and I want to stay down more than 7 minutes on my second dive?

You've said it twice now that my reasoning doesn't make sense. Can you actually explain why?

---------- Post added September 21st, 2014 at 09:51 PM ----------

Nothing against computers but, if I were just getting started in diving, OW I. I would just use dive tables. I've been diving since the mid-1980s and don't own a computer. My son just got certified this year and they really pushed buying a dive computer, IMHO it just isn't needed for basic diving and better to get a good working knowledge of dive tables. When you start going deep regularly or using mixed gases that might be a good reason to go after a computer. Everyone has an opinion. The only reason I would consider buying a computer early would be for a convent dive logbook. On a budget, computer would be low on my list; better to spend the money on your next phase of diving after getting some experience.

Of course this doesn't really answer the OP. Can't speak to dive computers but, Suunto makes great products.

Carl


Cheers, Carl

Just FYI, the SDI OW course requires using a computer. Teaching tables is purely optional and up to the instructor. Well, and, I guess, to some degree, the student as well. Also, as of July 31st, 2014 (according to the shop where I'm going for OW cert), PADI now also no longer requires teaching tables and you can get PADI OW certification just using a computer.

IOW, some new divers are going to HAVE to have a computer to dive. The shop I'm going through also told me that some resort dive shops won't let people dive without a computer. I suppose if you show them a 1,000-dive log book they might waive that requirement, but I imagine for new(ish) divers they would require you to rent one from them if you don't show up with one.

Personally, I already know how to read the tables and plan multiple dives in a day using Air or Nitrox, including the deco stops spelled out in the USN tables. But, I want a computer so that I can enjoy more time diving (actually in the water), since tables only allow for square dive profiles, computers compensate for non-square dive profiles, and I expect I will have many dives that are non-square. Plus the whole convenience of downloading my logs.

 

[jale]

Hi
Well it is not because some agencies are using dive computers from day 1 that you have to bypass minimum deco knowledge.
This approach is just a way to shorten courses and to put more people in the water. Maybe is good, maybe not
I have been reading your posts and it seems you have forgotten the essential: deco is not only about numbers but also about the quality of your ascent.
Furthermore you are wrong when you say dive tables don't allow multilevel planning
Jale

Because I don't want to buy another computer after x dives and I want to stay down more than 7 minutes on my second dive?

You've said it twice now that my reasoning doesn't make sense. Can you actually explain why?

---------- Post added September 21st, 2014 at 09:51 PM ----------



Just FYI, the SDI OW course requires using a computer. Teaching tables is purely optional and up to the instructor. Well, and, I guess, to some degree, the student as well. Also, as of July 31st, 2014 (according to the shop where I'm going for OW cert), PADI now also no longer requires teaching tables and you can get PADI OW certification just using a computer.

IOW, some new divers are going to HAVE to have a computer to dive. The shop I'm going through also told me that some resort dive shops won't let people dive without a computer. I suppose if you show them a 1,000-dive log book they might waive that requirement, but I imagine for new(ish) divers they would require you to rent one from them if you don't show up with one.

Personally, I already know how to read the tables and plan multiple dives in a day using Air or Nitrox, including the deco stops spelled out in the USN tables. But, I want a computer so that I can enjoy more time diving (actually in the water), since tables only allow for square dive profiles, computers compensate for non-square dive profiles, and I expect I will have many dives that are non-square. Plus the whole convenience of downloading my logs.

 

[Tbar]

If I decide I'm always going to get out when my NDL gets down to, say 10 or 20 minutes...

Really, there will be many dives that you do not even get in the water then. I do see the 'If' but you either decide on a safety factor it should be applied consistently or it is just ignored when required.

Possibly it would be good to have some real experience of diving and using the equipment before making any comment. From you posts you seem to suggest the difference in the computers could be several minutes (the wreck dive you suggested). Can you show an real example of this variation given normal diving practices. All you are doing is regurgitating information or miss-information with no actual understanding.

I use a Mares Puck, that is similarly seen as conservative using a similar RGBM algorithm. I have no issue on dive time when diving with groups there is really a few minutes difference when checking the Planned dive time. If I dive close to my the NDL then I spend a bit longer on a slower assent. Planning the dive to ensure there is gas for the required assent is important, particularity if you have a Deco obligation.

Having a more or less conservative algorithm won't change your bodies absorption of nitrogen!

Please can you stop with the misinformation.

Go get certified, enjoy diving and build some real knowledge through experience.