Need Official paper work on HEISER 190

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Heiser just sent me a huge amount of information on these tanks, including the original DOT paperwork and hydrotest reports on each tank made. If anyone wants a copy, PM me your email, and I can send it. Just the thing to take to your LDS when you need a fill - they'll fill it to any pressure you want, just to avoid having to read through it all.

(I'd like to do just one mailing, so please speak up now if you want it!)
 
Less interesting than a 190 I know...But a buddy just picked a heiser/beuchat 95 with a shot valve (very damaged DIN threads). So anyone know if a special valve is needed for the beuchat/heiser 95s, or if it is standard 3/4 NPS and will work with the average tank valve I have lying around.

Sounds like the tank was originally + rated. 2900 service pressure. 95cuft with 10% overfill at 3190psi. No REE of course. Original hydro 93.

Faber was very cooperative (2 day turnaround) at getting me REE numbers for 4 tanks I just aquired that are out of hydro and I want to get re-certified with a + if possible. Hoping worthington will be as cooperative.

Any thoughts?

Vance, I am a documentation hoarder...so if you haven't sent out that mailing yet, would love to be included.
 
As has already been posted...your shop is either staffed by morons or just won't pump anything past 3000 for their own reasons. You may want to try another shop or just live with the 131 cubic feet that 3000 gets you.

Quite a few years ago I worked for Beuchat and those monsters were sold off at a huge discount to the shops ... mostly because almost no one could carry them! A dive shop in Florida jammed a US tank valve into the neck and tried to fill it resulting in a dramatic explosion that blew the valve out and did some damage. There was a big time lawsuit that got Beuchat out of the tank biz and we sold off the rest of the 190s, 140s and whatever we had left for about $75 per tank to the shops just to dump them with a letter warning that ANY valve besides the supplied one would be dangerous.

I have a buddy that still has his 140 and is loving it less and less as he gets older.:wink:

Hmm, I am interested in that point.

I know these cylinders well and were made by Heiser in Austria probably in the late 1990s.
I concur with the statements here that the dive shop appears clueless. Certainly if the cylinder is in test date it is fine to fill to the stated pressure.

The point I am interested in is the point about a US tank valve blowing out of the cylinder. If the valve thread was correct (these cylinders were made for BEUCHAT FRANCE for international distribution) so is it possible some metric M25x 2 threaded cylinders were sent to the USA and sold? - and the incorrect 3/4 thread valve was fitted - (IE) Forced in?? - Surely not.!...........!!!

........but its really the only reason I can think of, any 3/4 valve will work in these cylinders (or M25 X 2) the Beuchat valve was made by SAN-O-SUB Italy under their trade name, but they make for various other manufacturers as well.

.....but, wow, hope you dont have to walk to far with that monster on your back.!
 
heard back from worthington with the REE just now, so big kudos to them as well as faber for being willing to lookup/calculate REE numbers on a request basis. we'll see if the tank passes the higher bar and gets the + back.

the beuchat valve on the tank (95cf at 3190 psi with +) is marked 3/4 NPSM...so normal US valves should fit, can't see how there is a special 3/4" NPSM beuchat thread that will hold when the average thermo valve with same thread will blow out. still curious about the reported incident of valve blowing off...wrong threads?
 
heard back from worthington with the REE just now, so big kudos to them as well as faber for being willing to lookup/calculate REE numbers on a request basis. we'll see if the tank passes the higher bar and gets the + back.

the beuchat valve on the tank (95cf at 3190 psi with +) is marked 3/4 NPSM...so normal US valves should fit, can't see how there is a special 3/4" NPSM beuchat thread that will hold when the average thermo valve with same thread will blow out. still curious about the reported incident of valve blowing off...wrong threads?

Yes, as I said above it seems quite odd. Can only be a mismatch of threads. but to get a 3/4 into a M25 x 2 thread you have to do some serious turning, cos its gonna get tight.

Anyway, sure any std 3/4 will do - Beuchat never had a special thread arrangement.

I actually also had a few these monsters (the 18 litres) which were built into a cage and we dived them with umbilicals, I think someoen tried to put it on his back once and we had to dig him out of 2ft of silt after he hit the bottom.:wink: - just kidding, but you get the drift.:D
 
The story does seem backwards. A Euro M25 valve will fit loosely in a 3/4-14 threaded neck, and may hold or blow out depending on how it is feeling that day, but the valve will be a too-tight fit the other way around. So maybe someone tried to put an M25 valve in the Beuchat, or perhaps more likely, it already had a wrong, M25 valve in it, which had been holding on against the odds, but ceased to after being messed with.

Or the hole could have been just badly stretched, overcut or otherwise out of spec. It happens. Come to think of it, maybe this could happen if someone tried hard enough to force a 3/4-14 valve into an M25 neck, which could happen if the tank in question was a stray Euro-spec Beuchat.

Oh, what were REEs you got from W and F, and for what specific tanks (that is to say, how did you describe them when you inquired? We are collecting REEs.

The beuchat valve on the tank (95cf at 3190 psi with +) is marked 3/4 NPSM...so normal US valves should fit, can't see how there is a special 3/4" NPSM beuchat thread that will hold when the average thermo valve with same thread will blow out. still curious about the reported incident of valve blowing off...wrong threads?
 
...

Oh, what were REEs you got from W and F, and for what specific tanks (that is to say, how did you describe them when you inquired? We are collecting REEs.


In both cases, I just asked nicely. Explained the REE wasn't stamped on the tank and that many local hydro shops are reluctant to go through all the work of calculating it from scratch. Asked that they look at their original manufacturing documents (or in the case of Worthington, the manufacturing documents they acquired when they purchased Heiser). Provided serial numbers and original hydro dates as well of course.

The emails are attached below. Glad you are compiling the numbers. Would be nice to have a central place to get these from instead of one-off inquiries to manufacturers...who eventually might get sick of it and stop being so nice. Hopefully hydro centers will accept the numbers even if not direct from the manufacturer.

Have a feeling REEs may have changed over time for different serial ranges, so might make sense to keep track of that too. Tank serials are included below.


Kind regards,

Matt



Beuchat LP95:
---
Dear Matthew,

having had a closer view on the matter together with our Quality Experts we kindly inform you, that the REE not been determined at the time when the cylinders were delivered to Beuchat, and therefore was also not stamped on the cylinders.

But based on the manufacturing certificates in our records we have now calculated the REE value for the concerned cylinders as follows (manufact. number 8255025/K302191):

REE: 55 ml

based on:
Total expansion: 50 ml
Nominal wall thickness: 7,0 mm
Outside diameter: 204 mm
Average volume: 12,5 lt
Test pressure: 4834 psi


Hoping to have been of assistance to you and best regards,

...
CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE

Worthington Cylinders GmbH
Beim Herrenhaus 1
A-3291 Kienberg/Gaming
Austria


---

Email from faber regarding OMS branded LP125s and Scubapro branded LP89s. The tank re-brand name and capacities in [] were added by me.
---
Dear Sir,

We refer to your mail dated 3rd August.
Normally enquiries like yours one are related to the re-validation of the plus ("+") on the cylinders at the moment the cylinders are re-tested.
We are not involved in the re-testing of our cylinders.
However on this specific argument, with the assistance of an Independent Inspection Agency (Arrowhead Industrial Services Inc.), we had reviewed in the past the procedures relative to the re-testing of cylinders with plus ("+") marking.
The result of the analysis is that according to 173.302 of the Code of Federal Regulations 49 Parts 100 to 185 Revised at October 1,
2000: "Compliance with average wall stress limitation may be determined through computation of the elastic expansion rejection limit in accordance with CGA Pamphlet C5 or through the use of the manufacturer's marked elastic expansion rejection limit (REE) on the cylinder".
We therefore suggest you to contact a competent center that is able to follow the procedures of 173.34 of the "code of federal regulations" 49 parts 100 to 185 Revised as of October 1,2000 for the re-test operations and 173.302 of the "Code of Federal Regulations"
49 parts 100 to 185 Revised as of October 1,2000 for the re-validation of the plus ("+").
However, in case you have some difficulties to find such a center, please note that the REE values of the cylinders mentioned in your mail are:
89/9018/163, REE 75 [(LP89 Scubapro)]
89/9011/122, REE 75 [(LP89 Scubapro)]
95/9074/099, REE 98 [(LP125 OMS)]
95/9074/123, REE 98 [(LP125 OMS)]

Yours faithfully,

Faber Industrie Spa
...

---
 
I'm nw-diver's buddy with the Heiser 95. Turns out they typo'd the serial number (transposed the last two digits) in their email, so I had to email again for confirmation. Once again a very quick reply:

Hi Matthew,

sorry, it was a typing error - I confirmed the REE value cylinder 8255052 - 12,0ltr. volume - enclosed the copy of the certificate (8255025 - is 15,0ltr. cylinder)

REE: 55 ml
>
>based on:
>Total expansion: 50 ml
>Nominal wall thickness: 7,0 mm
>Outside diameter: 204 mm
>Average volume: 12,5 lt
>Test pressure: 4834 psi

He also included a PDF of the legal certification documents for the entire batch of serial numbers including my tank--it's an interesting read. It has the analysis of the alloy used to make the tank, original hydro test results, manufacturing method, etc. PM me your email address if you want a copy.

Kudos to Worthington for being willing to offer support for such an old cylinder, especially since it's from a company they bought out.
 
I just listed 2 of these in the market place if anybody wants to try them out. I cant seem to use them as I have to drop all my weights and reset my bc to use them. And that is a pain as I will dive 3 tanks in a day and we usually dive 2 days in a row. It would be great if I had 6 of them so that I could ose one setup. But I'll stick to the aluminum ones :p
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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