Need Official paper work on HEISER 190

[dave's]

LOL... Yes its An Actual Dive tank and its only used occasionaly,
Belive you me i dont do any walk in access with this baby, (maby i should say " with this bubba")
cuz it dang sure aint no baby.
Any way.... dannobee Thanks for the link, a big pluse.
i sent an email to Beuchat last night and got the # to the head quarters, in france, i'm gonna call them and see if they will fax over an original owners packet that go's with the tank when they sell one, and i'm hoping they will send over a spec sheet pertaining specificaly to that tank.

if that dont get me anywhere then i'm hopiong that HElSER in Austraila (which is the Actual MFG. plant where they are made will send over the Actual hydro specs, tank swell (or expansion) where to measure and what the acceptable tolerances are.
As for that shop i will not be going back, and now im looking for another shop in my area.

 

[dave's]

Luis H ,
Yep... Belive me you know EVERY BIT of that -62# is there.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH for finding the CFR for me, Thats what i was trying to find befor i got on here, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU, I'll be dropping off a copy of these at that shop on my to take the tank to the other shop.

 

[SparticleBrane]

It's their problem, not yours for sure.

Incorrect -- it's the owner's problem, namely since he is the one who isn't getting the fills to the rated pressure.

 

[oxyhacker]

I don't know how much you'll find out from the company, though. I had lengthy exhanges with both Heiser and Beuchat a while back trying to get more information on this tank, and Heiser claimed to have no records of every having made such a tank, and the folks at Beuchat remembered it, but had no information on it. BTW Heiser is in Austria not Australia.

Heiser is part of the same company now as Worthington. I think the 190 was made for, and sold only by, Beuchat.

The problem your shop is having, is that since the DOT 3AA specification has gotten so completely associated in most peoples mind with LP tanks, they just can't believe that someone actually made a 4350 psi tank under that specification, so when they see that 4350 they just assume it's got to mean something else. But it is possible to - if you just make the tank heavy enough! Which Heiser clearly did. If you can get them to review what they know about DOT tank markings, they should be able to reason it through.

I'd suggest getting together all the printouts you can of various tank spec sites on the web and prior discussions here on this tank, and taking that with you next time you try to get the tank filled. It would be a lot more convincing if you could find an actual publication that listed the tanks working pressure but that might be hard - I actually have a Beuchat catalog that lists the 190, but it gives no specs. You might want to also write the DOT and give the the tank markings and ask them what the fill pressure is. That might be more convincing than net printouts. Only thing is, they can be slow answering.

Oh, when you get it hydroed be sure to get it hydroed for the 10% overfill ;-)

Incorrect -- it's the owner's problem, namely since he is the one who isn't getting the fills to the rated pressure.

 

[WD8CDH]

The number after the 3AA is the Service Pressure. And it can be legally filled to that pressure. And just as any other 3AA tank, it would be hydroed to 5/3 of the service pressure or in this case7250 psi. Some literature states that the service pressure is 4400 psi but to be technically correct, it is 4350 psi because that is what is stamped on the tank itself.

This is not a tank made to a Special Permit. It was made fully to the DOT 3AA spec and can be filled and tested as that spec allows. The tank is so heavy because it was made to the 3AA spec with 3AA materials. If it had been made to a Special Permit, it would be stamped differently, would most likely be made from stronger steel with thinner walls, would probably be lighter and might be tested to a different hydrostat pressure.

You don't need any information to get that tank filled to 4350 psi, VIP'd or hydroed other than what is stamped on the tank.

 

[WD8CDH]

Unless there was a factory stamped + after the 4350, you can not fill it to 10% over.

 

[oxyhacker]

Not so. According to 49 CFR 173.302a(b) any 3AA tank that passes the EE test and meets the other requirements can be given the 10% overfill as long as it passed the EE test "at the last test or retest". There is not requirement that the tank was so rated at the factory, or at any time thereaftr except the most recent.

Oh and the plus is stamped after the hydro not the fill pressure, in the US at least (Canada did it differently for a while).

Interesting (if true) though that the Heiser wasn't originally plus rated, and isn't stamped with an REE (since the lack of one makes it just about impossible to do it now) since that suggests that Beuchat or Heiser wasn't very interested in doing so. With the plus, the allowable till pressure would have been 4785 (good luck getting honest fills!) and the tank a .... 209!

Unless there was a factory stamped + after the 4350, you can not fill it to 10% over.

 

[WD8CDH]

Hi Vance,

It's been a long time since I have read that section of the CFR's in real detail. It looks like it's very difficult but not impossible to get a + stamp on a 3AA tank that doesn't have an REE stamped on it. (actual wall thickness measurements, bunch of calculations etc.)

 

[oxyhacker]

We've been corresponding with Worthington/Heiser about these tanks and they managed to find the specs on the 190s, and come up with the REE for them. Which makes the 4350 psi 190 into a 4785 psi 209, if they had been marked and marketed the way other 3AA tanks are! After some of our dealings with other tank companies, I am very impressed that Worthton/Heiser made the effort to find the information, and that they were able to do so:


Having had a closer view on the matter together with our Quality
Experts we kindly inform you, that the REE not been determined at the
time when the cylinders were delivered to Beuchat, and therefore was
also not stamped on the cylinders.

But based on the manufacturing certificates in our records we have now
calculated the REE value for the concerned cylinders as follows:

REE: 93 ml

based on:
Total expansion: 86 ml
Nominal wall thickness: 10,3 mm
Outside diameter: 204 mm
Average volume: 18,2 lt
Test pressure: 7250 psi

Worthington Cylinders GmbH
Beim Herrenhaus 1, A-3291 Kienberg
TEL +43/7485 606 298
FAX +43/7485 606 200
www.wthg.at ( http://www.wthg.at/ )

 

[rcontrera]

I'm trying to find some Offical paper work that shows the Actual psi the tank can be filled to, my local dive shop said they wont fill it past 3000 psi. WHY?

As has already been posted...your shop is either staffed by morons or just won't pump anything past 3000 for their own reasons. You may want to try another shop or just live with the 131 cubic feet that 3000 gets you.

Quite a few years ago I worked for Beuchat and those monsters were sold off at a huge discount to the shops ... mostly because almost no one could carry them! A dive shop in Florida jammed a US tank valve into the neck and tried to fill it resulting in a dramatic explosion that blew the valve out and did some damage. There was a big time lawsuit that got Beuchat out of the tank biz and we sold off the rest of the 190s, 140s and whatever we had left for about $75 per tank to the shops just to dump them with a letter warning that ANY valve besides the supplied one would be dangerous.

I have a buddy that still has his 140 and is loving it less and less as he gets older.