Need info on GoPro resolution settings...

[Marty Cerven]

Marty, most EXCELLENT reply...............and your Sorrento Video on VIMEO cost me a fair chunk of change as I bought dual SOLA 600 lights purely on your awesome lighting of that video. My wife and wallet budget really hates you...........grins.........good on yah Mate! Keep up the great work. I still need to set up my own VIMEO channel for them to host my 720P60FPS clips, any tips to posting there? Feel free to PM me. I've spent 50-60 Sony Video Vegas editing hours on a very tight lean edited Kona Hawaii 10 minute long clip.

Thanks and sorry about making you purchase the Sola lights, but I love mine and look forward to using them at my all time favorite dive site next week inside a cave with so much life its amazing. Best dive site in Australia easily if you like lots of fish including lots of sharks

I shot my first gopro underwater videos there a couple years ago and have been trying to get back their for a while. Its a little awkward to get to but well worth the trip, a friend of mine who has a sports camera hire business is lending me a few more hero 2's for some comparison videos I want to shoot. I will then use these cams with lots of experimental angles between me and my buddy along with some on my tray setup with filters and lights. Generally good vis at the site and guaranteed to see just about everything including 50 sharks on a bad day. Last time I was so overwhelmed by the big fish I missed so much of the other stuff including no footage at all from the cave due to no decent lights then.

I will try and find a post I made at the goprouser forum with my encode settings for vimeo, seeing as users can download the originals on Vimeo I like to make them as close to original quality as possible so anyone can download them and see how they are before being re encoded by the online site such as Vimeo or youtube.

Marty I have followed your gopro videos and forum posts elsewhere, no doubt you know how to operate this set up however a few comments may be helpful as you can't use a higher frame rate just to fight other issues in operating the camera.
The reason why most of the gopro video out there give seasickness is because the camera shakes and also is not operated properly. Shakes are created by the lack of sturdy trays, most of the people hold the camera by hand or on a pole or helmet, that is guarantee of sickness later and not the way to shoot underwater video, may be fun once but not in the long term

For what concerns the CMOS rolling stutter I have done several tests with other cameras where you can change the shutter speed and there is no difference as long as the shutter speed follows the rule of double the frame rate.
However I have to say that panning in underwater video is a rather uncommon thing to do, most times you have wide, medium and close shot as you approach the subject, panning really belongs more to topside video
There are some more sturdy trays for example the ultralight with two handles that should give a much more stable feel to the rig, the SRP you have also look a very good choice although am not totally sure about the design with the camera ahead of you

That is correct but as you point out you never have too much light, when you do you can apply a neutral density filter and take it down a few fstop if you are at the surface, a filter indeed takes 1 f-stop away and sorts things out in most cases

Ultimately I would shoot between 1080p30 and 1080p60 HOWEVER the human eye is more sensitive to number of pixels and can easily interpolate frames. So if you shoot your video properly without jerky movements, don't pan like you were outside water, have good buoyancy, and have also an idea of some basic video rules, the choice between 720p60 and 1080p30 is an easy one

If instead you are going on a bike and putting your gopro on an helmet and want to do some action clip slow down then 720p60 may be an idea

All good Interceptor, Im far from a pro and though I have used plenty of land based cameras in the past the GoPro is the first half decent one Ive taken underwater. I bought one as a way to learn my mistakes a little cheaper then with a $5k+ setup that would make a big mistake about $4700 more costly lol. Ive had great fun with the little gopro and dont mind sharing what I have learned along the way. None of my methods are to be treated as gospel by any means but for people struggling they may want to try some things that work for others like myself.

I agree with you as the best method is easily a good 2 handed tray, the SRP even though its a different shape I haven't seen that hurting the video in any way and stability is great when using one or 4 gopros on this setup with or without lights. It also has the added advantage of being able to be set down as a mini tripod. This would only work with cameras like the GoPro in the tripod setup as they are mounted on a hinge that can be turned easily for when the tray is in regular position and also in the tripod config. A regular camera cant hinge so you would need to make a custom hinge mount in order for it to work in that way but its quite a handy option I think.

I have seen one of my friends get some really awesome underwater timelapses using one of these, I will need to steal his idea one day as it turned out so cool and different. I still do like to experiment with other mounting methods and will do next week with 6 Hero 2's to play with so I cant try all my tried and tested methods along with a few new ones. I do actually like the head mounted POV for some videos as it really brings the atmosphere of the dive to the viewer at some locations. I know my non diving friends love viewing some of these as they get to see the dive as we see it. There are times it doesnt work great but I have got some pretty cool results with them being worn in the past.

The thing is that as it is also an action cam and can be worn head mounted or in other ways, these do require some other tricks for best results. Head mounting or other methods as being worn arent really down to the operator so you need to give it the best chance possible finding modes that works best for that setup.

Being such a small camera its also pretty hard to keep still and for beginners or people without a good tray setup they would be better off using a mode they can mask some of their limitations and then go to the 1080p30 modes as they improve their skills. This will make their initial videos a bit more viewable so it will keep them excited about using the cam underwater, if their lack of skills or better mounting methods makes the videos unwatchable they may lose interest and that's not a great thing.

Like I said earlier there are some things that seem backward when using a gopro camera, traditional methods dont always give best results so trying out all modes in different setups is very good to do. Excluding a tray setup that is as it is the most traditional method and will give great results with a little practice but the beauty of action cams is you can try some more non traditional shots not possible with many other cams. You dont want to do this all the time but its a pretty cool option to have and if you only want to shoot traditional videos then you may be better off with a more traditional camera.

 

[Interceptor121]

Marty all good. I like and support your work and have been following it for a while now

I am in a way at the same point my set up has been built from ebay second hand and ex demo. I spent a bit more than the GoPro (that I also considered) because I wanted to be able to shoot close ups at less than one foot and I had a whole set of lenses from my still set up.

I think the time lapse feature is a really interesting feature in itself, so far the only way to achieve this with a standard camera is to put a piece of rubber and an elastic band and use a normal camera, but the go pro option is definitely more interesting.

Having seen some of your footage I think the combination of Tray, Camera, filter and arms is in essence the same as I have. I have also a Sola video now that I am planning to use only for close ups.

The tray system you use has also the option of mounting locline arms and seems the way forward.

I would consider that tray an essential item to increase stability and decrease shake.

I also like your approach of keeping it positive and getting people to embrace video which is great but in this specific case I think the op has already passed the stage he needs to cheat with frame rates, his footage is already excellent at times and with a tray and some more experience he will get incredible results. Telling the op to go to 720p60 when he is already that stable is not a good suggestion getting a tray instead IS!

 

[Jamar]

The videos that look improved just show poor ability at taking videos. The frame rate is a way to mask the jerkyness of the operator.
Have a look at my clips (not done with a go pro) and tell me how they compare in your opinion. My camera (not a go pro) shoots at 30 and 60 fps. Let me know which clips you think are done at 60 and which ones at 30. Some of the very old ones are done with a powershot few years ago when i had no concept of how to shoot video and they look like some of those gopro poor ones (the majority)

Showing consistently clips at half speed to mask inability to take footage seems a short cut for a 30 seconds clip only

The reality is that underwater video is not like action camera and having more pixels supposing you know how to shoot is better than an increased frame rate because actually subjects don't move that quickly, of course if we exclude the mad finner holding the camera!

---------- Post Merged at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:05 AM ----------

This a very promising start. The key is good buoyancy and steady hand and you seem to have it despite the low number of dives. Some of the footage is more jerky but that is ok considering this is just the start. The school of jacks and the two stingrays are some of the best go pro footage on this forum.




---------- Post Merged at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:05 AM ----------

Fisheye barrel distortion is not something you want in video, in stills is OK but in video you want to show things as they were. For a flat port effect is fine. The gopro has no add on lenses but the 127 degrees settings once in water still gets to around 100 degrees which is plenty for wide angle.
Your footage looks sharp, colorful and steady, I don't see reason for changing anything.
Don't get fooled by the advice of shooting at higher frame rates to then slow it down so that it masks the jerkiness of the operator. You seem to have a good idea on how to hold a camera just keep it up.
Have you got a tray with your set up?

Thanks for the feedback! So If I'm reading what you said correct...I should turn the angle down to at least medium maybe even narrow?

:- ) Believe it or not, I just held the GoPro with my hand. (shame on me right?) Haha.

I plan I getting a setup with lights and a handle. I'm hoping this with some practice will stabilize things a bit. Here's the stuff I was looking at...

GoPro Video Lighting System

 

[Marty Cerven]

I think you should try all 3 fov modes and see how you go, you will find however that narrow mode is too noisy in the GoPro and needs lots of light to get decent results and Ive never got much good from that mode underwater. I use wide mode the most and try and get in close to my subject, the best colours will be those that are closest to the camera so using wide mode you get much more in the frame close to the camera and this works well for me. Its the same if using lights or filters but with lights to be able to use the wide mode like I do you need to have some very good wide angle video lights to fill the frame properly like the Sola series by L&M.

You just need to remember the minimum focus distance is about 6 inches so make sure your further then that away or you will be out of focus. If I cant get in as close as I like I will use the medium mode as otherwise things will appear too small in the widest mode.

Not too sure about that GoPro Video Lighting System, Its a good start but being a one handed Goodman handle setup you wont get the same stability as a 2 handed tray. Also the lights I think for best results and to avoid too much backscatter you want them to be up higher giving more a lighting angle similar to the sun rather then being at the same level as the camera for best results.

One handed use may be ok if your still not too comfortable with your dive skills but with my tray setup I have it tethered to my BCD via an extendable leash. This lets me let go of it if I need my hands free, but when it comes to best stability in hand held use 2 handed use is much better then 1.

Also a good extra to have when shooting handheld is the LCD screen, this lets you frame your shots much easier and if using different FOV's you can see easily how this effects your shot and you can adjust your framing to suit.

 

[LowVizWiz]

He is asking for advice on how to make his video better and am giving a contribution based on where he is right now and where he wants to be. His footage is already quite stable and look 100% better and crisper than most that is on here. Why would you advise this person to reduce to 720p60? This makes no sense whatsoever

Besides where are your videos? Mine are in the signature

Here's a video shot recently with lots of surge and silt due to the recent storms, can you tell me what was shot at 60fps and what wasn't? I hate FB compression.

[video=facebook;10151188580294225]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10151188580294225[/video]

Anyway, no one as far as I can tell and certainly not I would advise the op that they shoot everything one way or the other and that's what you don't seem to understand. Sometimes 1080 is the best choice and sometimes it's not. And thru trial and error, most of us shooting the GoPro find that 720 at 60fps mode is the best default choice.

If I'm shooting a wide scene with lots of ambient light chances are I'm switching to r5, but before I jump in the water my camera is set to r3 and if I have the opportunity to move in close to a subject you better believe my camera will be rolling at 60fps. I only wish I had the Hero2 I may give 120fps a shot. There are no hard and fast rules!

 

[Marty Cerven]

LowVizWiz the main thing I dont like too much about the video is the software stabilization. Id prefer shakey footage over that warping that the software does and have never had great results with it so I have never used it. In very rough conditions it can be quite tricky and this is where I really need to improve my dive skills quite a bit to be a little more stable.

Finding a good stable hand mount is the best option and then also having a choice in shooting modes helps but you cant beat a steady hand and good setup.

Here are a couple of my examples, this one all shot in 1080p30 on a HD2 mostly wide but a couple shots in medium. I cant remember which is which though lol. This was with a very strong current, chasing the cuttlefish meant we had about a 40 minute battle back against the current to get back to the pier. I was kicking away like mad just to stay still in most shots but the tray still gave me pretty stable footage here considering the currents and surge.

[Vimeo]39825552[/Vimeo]

This one was shot in much calmer waters mostly 1080p30 wide and some 720P60 if anyone can spot it

[Vimeo]39632462[/Vimeo]

Here is an example of one of my earlier videos, mostly all handheld and very shakey lol. HD1 all in 720p60 with a few head mounted shots, It needed some clever cutting to get the most stable shots out of it but I tried software stabilization and it gave much the same effect of your video which I really dont like much. If this was shot in 1080p30 it would have been useless as most of my 1080p footage was from that trip due to not having a good handheld setup.

[Vimeo]29883089[/Vimeo]

Here is a video showing all the modes underwater in both Hero1 and Hero2 cams.

[Vimeo]35090870[/Vimeo]

Here is where I will be going next week with lots more tools at my disposal this time around. This was just headband 720p60 in a HD1 15-27m no filters or lights.

[video=youtube;T3jZFzpG3ts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3jZFzpG3ts[/video]

 

[Interceptor121]

@jamar yes it is clear you have the camera in your hand in fact this is why I praised the buoyancy
Personally as gopro tray having considered all options I would get the SRP tray or ultralight
Not sure what the buoyancy of SRP is but I like the fact you can put loc line arms if you want to add a video light
The ultralight set up costs the same and with the right handles can give you the same options
Am not suggesting to get tray and lights immediately but to get the tray only as a start. If your diving is in clear water lights are almost not needed
Lights are very useful for macro but the gopro does not focus at close range which means if you want lights for wide angle is either two or none as the light of the beams must cover the field of view of the lens and a single light only does 60 degrees typically
So my recommendation is to get a tray to stabilise your footage even more and think about lights later
Is your filter inside or outside the housing? I prefer those that can be removed as in the first few feet don't need any filter so if you have it on and get something at safety stop out get a nasty red hue
For what concerns modes I was not suggesting anything specific and as Marty suggests I encourage experimentation however I personally do not like barrel distortion in video so I would settle for the mode that is more pleasant to view later on screen
Marty has got few examples there I think you can draw our own conclusions
In general terms as the lens is behind a flat port and not a dome port extra wide mode will create significant barrel distortion underwater so the R5 mode at the medium setting is 127 degree in air but in water will drop to something between 100 and 110 max
Take into account that or video between 80-100 degrees is considered the norm and super wide only goes to show a large wreck for example
So I would try setting r5 at medium and use super wide for large wrecks or near the surface for whale sharks etc ect
Well done and great start

---------- Post Merged at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:17 AM ----------

Here's a video shot recently with lots of surge and silt due to the recent storms, can you tell me what was shot at 60fps and what wasn't? I hate FB compression.

[video=facebook;10151188580294225]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10151188580294225[/video]

Anyway, no one as far as I can tell and certainly not I would advise the op that they shoot everything one way or the other and that's what you don't seem to understand. Sometimes 1080 is the best choice and sometimes it's not. And thru trial and error, most of us shooting the GoPro find that 720 at 60fps mode is the best default choice.

If I'm shooting a wide scene with lots of ambient light chances are I'm switching to r5, but before I jump in the water my camera is set to r3 and if I have the opportunity to move in close to a subject you better believe my camera will be rolling at 60fps. I only wish I had the Hero2 I may give 120fps a shot. There are no hard and fast rules!

Even with the blur is quite easy to see that the footage is slowed down and looks unnatural for most
Also the stabilisation effect together with slowing down the footage is deadly it is better to stabilise and play at normal speed if you want some advice. The reason is simple the stabilisation software works out camera pans and movements at normal play speed, if you then play at different speeds the results are not good at all
You simply can't stabilise and then play at slower speed, stabilisation works only of you keep the same speed otherwise you get the warp effect
So yes I can tell when the footage has been slowed down is quite apparent and looks ugly

 

[LowVizWiz]

LowVizWiz the main thing I dont like too much about the video is the software stabilization. Id prefer shakey footage over that warping that the software does and have never had great results with it so I have never used it. In very rough conditions it can be quite tricky and this is where I really need to improve my dive skills quite a bit to be a little more stable.

Finding a good stable hand mount is the best option and then also having a choice in shooting modes helps but you cant beat a steady hand and good setup.

Marty, I agree with you. This was edited in FCP X and I was mostly playing around learning the tool and was not all that impressed with the stabilization either, the old Motion did a heck of a lot better IMO. I'm switching to Media Composer 6 now and find the tracking to be extremely good I'll see how it does.

The shots where the stabilization is most evident had less to do with the conditions and more to do with the shot itself. For the tiny scorpion fish I had to hold the tray away from my body and by a single handle basically shooting blind as I could not see the monitor. And the first lobster was tight corners again extending my arms. I'm never pleased with any of my underwater footage because I know how much it's lacking yet people who have never been underwater marvel at it.

One thing I'm tinkering with is adding a little more weight to my SRP tray and I wonder how much weight your SOLAs add to the equation and if you feel like it makes the rig top heavy? I don't even know why I ask that since in all reality, if I'm going to invest into some SOLA lights I'd probably go with a DSLR and forgo shooting the GoPro altogether.

Thanks for your input!

---------- Post Merged at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:00 AM ----------

...if you want some advice.

From you? No thank you... I think I'll pass.

 

[Interceptor121]

Hahaha
Don't take criticism easily? You can't stabilise footage and then slow it down it is not going to produce results
If you really wanted to achieve something you would first convert the footage to slow speed and then stabilise the new file
The suggestions am giving you are tested why don't you go and try maybe things get better?
Sola light are near to neutral in water you can overweight yourself to get more stable but getting the rig more than 1 pound heavy will increase not decrease the shake as you get tired holding it
And adding two lights to the set up definitely brings results in terms of colour
In short to make the footage less jerky you need to dive better and hold the camera steady other tricks just don't work sorry you can try all the software and tricks you want is never going to really look good

 

[LowVizWiz]

Interceptor, my work gets criticized on a daily basis by truly talented people and I choose to consider the source of the advise and or critique and respond accordingly.
Your advice/criticism, I choose to ignore simply because it's clear to me from your comments that you do not know what you're talking about. And apparently lack simple reading comprehension skills. I'm not reading any more of your comments.

I want to apologize to the op for getting off topic. I should have censored myself a lot sooner. Some people just don't get it.