Need info on GoPro resolution settings...

[Interceptor121]

Interesting discussion. Motion fluidity depends on the relationship between shutter speed and frame rate
To shoot at 60fps an still have fluidity you need a 1/120 shutter speed or actually 1/125 as 1/120 doesn't exist. This shutter speed is too fast to work underwater without lights without Adding too much noise in the picture
On the other hand 30p requires only 1/60 which gives you good fluidity underwater until 20 meters without lights on a bright day
So between 1080p@30 and 720p@60 underwater the winner is 1080p@30
Besides YouTube doesn't support 60 fps and no media player does it either

 

[RockyHeap]

Interesting discussion. Motion fluidity depends on the relationship between shutter speed and frame rate
To shoot at 60fps an still have fluidity you need a 1/120 shutter speed or actually 1/125 as 1/120 doesn't exist. This shutter speed is too fast to work underwater without lights without Adding too much noise in the picture
On the other hand 30p requires only 1/60 which gives you good fluidity underwater until 20 meters without lights on a bright day
So between 1080p@30 and 720p@60 underwater the winner is 1080p@30
Besides YouTube doesn't support 60 fps and no media player does it either

SORRY MSDT but I whole heartedly disagree.

I've shot in ambient light, at 100 foot deep, with fast moving subjects, and IMHO 60 frames a second is the only way to capture SMOOTH images on the go pro. Even on my 60" LCD TV, the difference in playback between 720P and 1080 is hardly noticable, but the stutter stutter of 30 FPS and 60 FPS is, well, twice the resolution of capture rate on the front end of video taking.


I'm totally open to any discussion of GoPro's automatic shutter speed and f-stop auto white ballance settings and welcome that discussion, but it's very painfull for me to watch anything but 60 FPS capture even on land if you're panning the camera at all even slowly.

 

[Marty Cerven]

The other issue is also due to the CMOS rollng shutter, the slower the shutter speed the more rolling shutter effect you will have. If the camera is on an unstable mount at 30p this will give the video that nausiating wobble to it. This is one of the main reasons for the better results in 60p, faster shutter speeds so the slowest shutter speed in 60p will have half the rolling shutter effect of 30p.

I personaly like 60p playback on my tv or computer but as most of my videos end up being shown in 30p, by using the tray and smooth panning I can make 1080p30 work and get a better result then shooting in 60p as long as I am very smooth with the camera and panning motions.

For any shots where I wear the camera I still use 720p60 still mostly for that reason of the rolling shutter and higher shutter speed reduces blurring with lots of camera movement. There will be a point where the light gets too bad for 60p but surprisingly it does ok til the light drops very low. When light gets very low you need a very steady mount and lower frame rate for best possible low light performance but in good light shooting 60p still works ok.

If the light is very bright the shutter speed of the cam will be raised, this will give it more of the stuttering effect due to no motion blur going on with just a series of fast shutter images at 30p that tend to lack smooth motion. You need some motion blurring going on to blend each frame together smoothly but too much will make everything a blur. This bright light fast shutter will be the same in 60p and 30p at such light levels. In that case 60p playback will be smoothest and converting to 30p will give the same results as the video shot in 30p because the shutter speed were most likely the same in both modes in bright light. You can slow motion the 60p footage to 50% speed and improve motion or need to use a filter to reduce light to slow the shutter speed in very bright light. Rarely an issue underwater of having too much light though lol.

The funny thing with the gopro I have found is that following traditional rules of video dont always give the best results, the rolling shutter does cause some issues you need to overcome in a way that may seem backward at times. Its good to go out and try all modes for yourself then work out what works best for your setup and type of shot your trying to get.

 

[LowVizWiz]

Besides YouTube doesn't support 60 fps and no media player does it either

The whole point of shooting video at higher than normal (30 fps) is that when the footage is played back at regular speed (30 fps) it looks slowed down and has more motion detail. No one on this thread claimed there was a need to playback at 60 or any other high frame rates.

 

[RockyHeap]

Marty, most EXCELLENT reply...............and your Sorrento Video on VIMEO cost me a fair chunk of change as I bought dual SOLA 600 lights purely on your awesome lighting of that video. My wife and wallet budget really hates you...........grins.........good on yah Mate! Keep up the great work. I still need to set up my own VIMEO channel for them to host my 720P60FPS clips, any tips to posting there? Feel free to PM me. I've spent 50-60 Sony Video Vegas editing hours on a very tight lean edited Kona Hawaii 10 minute long clip.

The other issue is also due to the CMOS rollng shutter, the slower the shutter speed the more rolling shutter effect you will have. If the camera is on an unstable mount at 30p this will give the video that nausiating wobble to it. This is one of the main reasons for the better results in 60p, faster shutter speeds so the slowest shutter speed in 60p will have half the rolling shutter effect of 30p.

I personaly like 60p playback on my tv or computer but as most of my videos end up being shown in 30p, by using the tray and smooth panning I can make 1080p30 work and get a better result then shooting in 60p as long as I am very smooth with the camera and panning motions.

For any shots where I wear the camera I still use 720p60 still mostly for that reason of the rolling shutter and higher shutter speed reduces blurring with lots of camera movement. There will be a point where the light gets too bad for 60p but surprisingly it does ok til the light drops very low. When light gets very low you need a very steady mount and lower frame rate for best possible low light performance but in good light shooting 60p still works ok.

If the light is very bright the shutter speed of the cam will be raised, this will give it more of the stuttering effect due to no motion blur going on with just a series of fast shutter images at 30p that tend to lack smooth motion. You need some motion blurring going on to blend each frame together smoothly but too much will make everything a blur. This bright light fast shutter will be the same in 60p and 30p at such light levels. In that case 60p playback will be smoothest and converting to 30p will give the same results as the video shot in 30p because the shutter speed were most likely the same in both modes in bright light. You can slow motion the 60p footage to 50% speed and improve motion or need to use a filter to reduce light to slow the shutter speed in very bright light. Rarely an issue underwater of having too much light though lol.

The funny thing with the gopro I have found is that following traditional rules of video dont always give the best results, the rolling shutter does cause some issues you need to overcome in a way that may seem backward at times. Its good to go out and try all modes for yourself then work out what works best for your setup and type of shot your trying to get.

 

[Interceptor121]

The whole point of shooting video at higher than normal (30 fps) is that when the footage is played back at regular speed (30 fps) it looks slowed down and has more motion detail. No one on this thread claimed there was a need to playback at 60 or any other high frame rates.

You are supposed to show the footage as it occurred. Occasional slow downs to show critter behaviour can be interesting showing everything at half speed is just plain weird and boring.

---------- Post Merged at 08:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:57 AM ----------

The other issue is also due to the CMOS rollng shutter, the slower the shutter speed the more rolling shutter effect you will have. If the camera is on an unstable mount at 30p this will give the video that nausiating wobble to it. This is one of the main reasons for the better results in 60p, faster shutter speeds so the slowest shutter speed in 60p will have half the rolling shutter effect of 30p.

I personaly like 60p playback on my tv or computer but as most of my videos end up being shown in 30p, by using the tray and smooth panning I can make 1080p30 work and get a better result then shooting in 60p as long as I am very smooth with the camera and panning motions.

Marty I have followed your gopro videos and forum posts elsewhere, no doubt you know how to operate this set up however a few comments may be helpful as you can't use a higher frame rate just to fight other issues in operating the camera.
The reason why most of the gopro video out there give seasickness is because the camera shakes and also is not operated properly. Shakes are created by the lack of sturdy trays, most of the people hold the camera by hand or on a pole or helmet, that is guarantee of sickness later and not the way to shoot underwater video, may be fun once but not in the long term

For what concerns the CMOS rolling stutter I have done several tests with other cameras where you can change the shutter speed and there is no difference as long as the shutter speed follows the rule of double the frame rate.
However I have to say that panning in underwater video is a rather uncommon thing to do, most times you have wide, medium and close shot as you approach the subject, panning really belongs more to topside video
There are some more sturdy trays for example the ultralight with two handles that should give a much more stable feel to the rig, the SRP you have also look a very good choice although am not totally sure about the design with the camera ahead of you

If the light is very bright the shutter speed of the cam will be raised, this will give it more of the stuttering effect due to no motion blur going on with just a series of fast shutter images at 30p that tend to lack smooth motion. You need some motion blurring going on to blend each frame together smoothly but too much will make everything a blur. This bright light fast shutter will be the same in 60p and 30p at such light levels. In that case 60p playback will be smoothest and converting to 30p will give the same results as the video shot in 30p because the shutter speed were most likely the same in both modes in bright light. You can slow motion the 60p footage to 50% speed and improve motion or need to use a filter to reduce light to slow the shutter speed in very bright light. Rarely an issue underwater of having too much light though lol.

That is correct but as you point out you never have too much light, when you do you can apply a neutral density filter and take it down a few fstop if you are at the surface, a filter indeed takes 1 f-stop away and sorts things out in most cases

Ultimately I would shoot between 1080p30 and 1080p60 HOWEVER the human eye is more sensitive to number of pixels and can easily interpolate frames. So if you shoot your video properly without jerky movements, don't pan like you were outside water, have good buoyancy, and have also an idea of some basic video rules, the choice between 720p60 and 1080p30 is an easy one

If instead you are going on a bike and putting your gopro on an helmet and want to do some action clip slow down then 720p60 may be an idea

 

[fdarden]

Interesting discussion. Motion fluidity depends on the relationship between shutter speed and frame rate
To shoot at 60fps an still have fluidity you need a 1/120 shutter speed or actually 1/125 as 1/120 doesn't exist. This shutter speed is too fast to work underwater without lights without Adding too much noise in the picture
On the other hand 30p requires only 1/60 which gives you good fluidity underwater until 20 meters without lights on a bright day
So between 1080p@30 and 720p@60 underwater the winner is 1080p@30
Besides YouTube doesn't support 60 fps and no media player does it either

My experience with shooting well over 200 dives on a GoPro tells that your information is theoretical and not correct, or you have incredibly special eyes.. 720/60 on a GoPro at least, produces noticeably better quality dive videos, than 1080p at any setting. I do not need to technically over-think this. I can look at the video and it does not lie. While your explanation sounds good, I suspect its a "gut" theory, and does not come from much actual experience shooting underwater with a GoPro. You can test this easily. You dont need Scubaboard to tel you. It is not like it really costs anything to test this either. You have been provided multiple samples to compare, and you can test it yourself and see side by side. Heck you can even test it on the same dive, as you are not locked out of the GoPro's controls while diving. Recording at 60fps, and downconverting to 30fps produces vastly superior results according to my average every day eyes. I certainly would not use Youtube as a litmus test for video quality, as I have nicknamed it the "video thrashing machine"

 

[Interceptor121]

My experience with shooting well over 200 dives on a GoPro tells that your information is theoretical and not correct, or you have incredibly special eyes.. 720/60 on a GoPro at least, produces noticeably better quality dive videos, than 1080p at any setting. I do not need to technically over-think this. I can look at the video and it does not lie. While your explanation sounds good, I suspect its a "gut" theory, and does not come from much actual experience shooting underwater with a GoPro. You can test this easily. You dont need Scubaboard to tel you. It is not like it really costs anything to test this either. You have been provided multiple samples to compare, and you can test it yourself and see side by side. Heck you can even test it on the same dive, as you are not locked out of the GoPro's controls while diving. Recording at 60fps, and downconverting to 30fps produces vastly superior results according to my average every day eyes. I certainly would not use Youtube as a litmus test for video quality, as I have nicknamed it the "video thrashing machine"

The videos that look improved just show poor ability at taking videos. The frame rate is a way to mask the jerkyness of the operator.
Have a look at my clips (not done with a go pro) and tell me how they compare in your opinion. My camera (not a go pro) shoots at 30 and 60 fps. Let me know which clips you think are done at 60 and which ones at 30. Some of the very old ones are done with a powershot few years ago when i had no concept of how to shoot video and they look like some of those gopro poor ones (the majority)

Showing consistently clips at half speed to mask inability to take footage seems a short cut for a 30 seconds clip only

The reality is that underwater video is not like action camera and having more pixels supposing you know how to shoot is better than an increased frame rate because actually subjects don't move that quickly, of course if we exclude the mad finner holding the camera!

---------- Post Merged at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:05 AM ----------

This a very promising start. The key is good buoyancy and steady hand and you seem to have it despite the low number of dives. Some of the footage is more jerky but that is ok considering this is just the start. The school of jacks and the two stingrays are some of the best go pro footage on this forum.

OK!

I shot my first vids with the GoPro. So far I've only edited some 1080 30fps stuff.

GoPro Hero2 : A "Ray"zing Grace on Vimeo

GoPro HD Hero2 : JackPOT on Vimeo

I also shot some stuff in 720 60fps. I'll post later.

Any experienced video guys, by all means give some critique! I'm new at this and I'm OBSESSED! I wanna get better really quickly.

---------- Post Merged at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:05 AM ----------

Fisheye barrel distortion is not something you want in video, in stills is OK but in video you want to show things as they were. For a flat port effect is fine. The gopro has no add on lenses but the 127 degrees settings once in water still gets to around 100 degrees which is plenty for wide angle.
Your footage looks sharp, colorful and steady, I don't see reason for changing anything.
Don't get fooled by the advice of shooting at higher frame rates to then slow it down so that it masks the jerkiness of the operator. You seem to have a good idea on how to hold a camera just keep it up.
Have you got a tray with your set up?

Thanks for such a QUICK response! I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the thought of purposely going for a LOWER resolution just to get the higher frame rate. I'd think in an environment where things move SLOWER but there's and abundance of vivid colors and very exotic textures you can see underwater one would want the HIGHEST possible resolution for clarity. I guess one would just have to find the happy medium between the two. Maybe i am missing the point. I will admit I am a novice videographer so I suppose some of this stuff will be trial and error and just seeing what "looks" better to me.

Can you or anyone speak on narrow, medium, or wide angles? I understand why many people like the fisheye look but sometimes i feel like it distracts from the natural look of the video. My goal for video underwater is usually to SHOW people who are unfamiliar with SCUBA or too scared to do it, why I absolutely LOVE IT, so I want them to see the dive the way I SEE it...and fisheye isn't really how we're seeing the dive through our masks.

Just thoughts and discussion! I'd love the hear your perspectives and stories...also some links I can check out.

Thx!

 

[LowVizWiz]

You are supposed to show the footage as it occurred. Occasional slow downs to show critter behaviour can be interesting showing everything at half speed is just plain weird and boring.

I don't know about you, but I choose to shoot in whatever mode will give me the best actual visual results and I can switch from R5 to R3 in the middle of a dive to fit my needs in the blink of an eye. I've been producing, directing, shooting, editing and teaching TV and film for a living for well over 20 years and can tell you that, tech specs don't always match real world conditions.

If you haven't shot with a GoPro and examined the results, you really don't have a dog in this fight. You are entitled to your opinion about what's best and that's absolutely fine. But you are way off the OP.

No one is arguing that technically speaking 720 is better than 1080 or that shooting 60fps is the way to shoot everything under the skies, but that seems to be your assumption. We are giving actual real world results from shooting a GoPro camera not theoretical examples.

 

[Interceptor121]

Those conclusions are generic don't depend on the camera. Most of the footage used as comparison as well as some of the supposed advocate of the higher frame rate is just purely bad, jerky footage
Shooting it at high frame rate and slowing it down may work for 30 seconds but is not a recipe
The actual footage of the OP that started this thread is way better than many of the people that predicate here
He is asking for advice on how to make his video better and am giving a contribution based on where he is right now and where he wants to be. His footage is already quite stable and look 100% better and crisper than most that is on here. Why would you advise this person to reduce to 720p60? This makes no sense whatsoever

Besides where are your videos? Mine are in the signature