Need help with DSS rig

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin, I have no intention of going tit for tat with you over everything you say but this is simply hyperbole.

It is not hyperbole, if I wasn't late for morning dive I take minute and find a few recent examples.

I find your rig, assembled without an STA, to be less than ideal... FOR ME. IMHO, a STA improves the stability.

Fine, by all means use one. Posting staged photos to support your "preference" does nothing but damage your creditbility.

I'm sorry that I can't say that without offending you but that's my opinion. I've tried to compliment the things that I like about your rig but somehow you take that as a "smear" and accuse me of an "agenda".

All I'm asking you to do is back up your claim. Dogma is pretty useless, repetition of a claim does not prove it, but it does indicate an agenda.

I'm not offended by your claim. I have repeatedly asked you to be specific about how and when this "improved stability" is benefical during actual scuba use. All you do is repeat your claim that it's more stable.

The DSS users that have reported in this thread and others say they can detect no tank movement How exactly then is the "added stability" of a STA a benefit to the diver? Please be specific.

Believe it or not, Tobin, you have not perfected the backplate and wing... nobody has.

I've never claimed perfection, ever. Every design has compromises. I do know what the strenghts of my design are however, and I will defend them when intentional misinformation is presented.

Tobin, I applaud your contibutions to the board. There are many times where you field questions that have nothing to do with your product at all. But what would really be neat would be to have a manufacturer that would come to the board with a mature, open mind willing to exchange ideas and thoughts.

When I failed to do exactly that? There are many competing solutions to most problems, each with their pros and cons. My objection is to intentional misinformation.

Just because we might have some dislikes or preferences or whatever doesn't mean we're part of some conspiracy.

When you posted staged false photos to create the impression of problem it sure smells like one, and apparently not just to me.

I've never ever challenged anybody on their personal preferences, or specifically their use of a STA. I've been very consistent on this matter. It's pretty black and white.

Pros: STA's can be a means of adding weight, and they do permit quickly changing from single tanks to doubles.

Cons: STA's add cost, parts, move the tank away from the diver, and add to the assembly and dissasembly time and effort.

I've never said STA's were evil, just unnecessary most of the time. My wings will accomodate most STA's why would I do that if I was anti STA?

I will try this setup without the wedge blocks.

Again, I'd recommend retaining the wedge blocks. Almost all our users find them useful. They serve several purposes inluding reducing the max load on the cambuckle. This both reduces the required closing force, and protects the buckle from breakage. The only buckle we've ever had returned was from somebody who was not using the wedge blocks.

This is simply my personal feeling on the matter. It is not meant as an attack on you or your gear.

The staged photos and your plaintive pleas for help were just honest mistakes.......



Tobin

 

[TSandM]

Stephen, I'm glad to read your last post. When I first got my rig (which has a DSS wing on an Oxycheq plate, so I guess I have a foot in each camp ) I had some difficulties with the tank ending up askew. I always figured it was user error, and eventually the problem stopped happening -- I'll have to go look and see if I have played with things enough to get some of the Velcro through the wedge blocks.

The amount of skewing was visible but easily corrected, and I never had the tank move after the whole assembly was put together and tightened.

I've never used an STA, and maybe there is some advantage to doing so, but the tank has been so stable on my back with the setup I have that it hasn't appealed to me much to try and change it.

 

[realdiver7]

I use the DSS Kydex BP with various integrated STA wings, and like it. I don't have to put any velcro through the wedge blocks. At first I had questions about how to keep the BP straight on the tank, but once I got everything properly set up, I did not have any trouble.

On most integrated STA setups, simply cinch down one cam band, make sure the plate is centered straight up and down, and then cinch down the second cam band. DSS has a recommended sequence for which cam band to cinch down first, but I don't remember it.

Also, I have tried the slide-on XS Scuba pockets on the cam bands, but now I use the velcro quick connect XS Scuba pockets. The velcro pockets are much easier to position, attach and remove. Once the cam bands are tightened, the weight pockets are very secure, and will not move.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Tobin,

I was all ready to order your DSS bp/harness, but after reading your recent comments on this site I've reconsidered. I haven't been impressed at all with your professionalism in quite a few discussions-turned-ugly, and this post makes me question your dedication to your customers as well.

Well, you would be drawing an incorrect conclusion ... I'm probably one of the first people on this board to deal with Tobin, and over the past three years or so I have made several transactions with him. My experiences have been nothing but positive. I'm something of a gear junkie, and have established relationships with quite a number of dive equipment manufacturers ... including Oxycheq, Halcyon, Salvo, NiteRider, Dive Rite, DUI, Northern Diver, Diving Concepts, and others. Many of those provide excellent customer service ... some less so ... but Tobin is consistently one of the best, most customer-oriented dive equipment manufacturers I deal with. I cannot think of a single manufacturer who puts more effort into trying to do so than Tobin ... and considering the quality of service some of those other companies provide, that's saying quite a lot.

For full disclosure, I am in no manner associated with DSS ... in fact, I currently work for a shop that sells a competitor's product.

As to this thread ... the first question that came to my mind when I read the Stephen's post was why hadn't he contacted Tobin? Seems to me that if you're really interested in a solution, the logical place to start is with the product designer ... especially when he's so easily accessible.

I won't make any assumptions about motives ... but to my concern, posting this thread in the manner that Stephen did does come across like a smear ... especially coming from a dive professional like Stephen who should understand the business implications of making such a post.

And to be perfectly honest about it, I could just as easily do the same thing about an ongoing problem I've been having with an Oxycheq product ... or a Halcyon one ... but it's not a very professional (or effective) way to deal with the issue.

This thread was a loser from the get-go ... and as someone who's owned, used, and helped others set up, the product ... I have a hard time accepting that it's a legitimate issue.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lundysd]

Bob,

I respect your opinion on this matter and understand your point of view, but this thread still baffles me (in many ways). I find it hard to believe that the initial poster went to all this trouble (faking pictures and genuinely trying to sound perplexed) to consciously smear a businessman. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are certainly easier and better ways of doing it. On the other side, I think publicly accusing someone of this type of behavior is totally inappropriate and immature: I know if I tried to post a legit question regarding my gear and was accused of something along those lines, I'd be very displeased. I don't know his motives and they could be hostile, but I do know that I really admire someone who can take the high road in situations like this.

Irregardless of the motives of this thread from the get-go, I've just been rubbed the wrong way by a lot of what's been going on lately. I don't care who is right and who is wrong, but many of these hostile posts just shouldn't be made by anyone, much less a salesperson.

To be completely honest, the outcome of this really doesn't affect me in any way. I still believe Tobin makes great/innovative gear, I just think that for the sake of his public image, Tobin should reconsider entering into the pages and pages of heated arguments I see on scubaboard.... (and by no means is this limited to him).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

I respect your opinion on this matter and understand your point of view, but this thread still baffles me (in many ways). I find it hard to believe that the initial poster went to all this trouble (faking pictures and genuinely trying to sound perplexed) to consciously smear a businessman. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are certainly easier and better ways of doing it. On the other side, I think publicly accusing someone of this type of behavior is totally inappropriate and immature: I know if I tried to post a legit question regarding my gear and was accused of something along those lines, I'd be very displeased. I don't know his motives and they could be hostile, but I do know that I really admire someone who can take the high road in situations like this.

Irregardless of the motives of this thread from the get-go, I've just been rubbed the wrong way by a lot of what's been going on lately. I don't care who is right and who is wrong, but many of these hostile posts just shouldn't be made by anyone, much less a salesperson.

To be completely honest, the outcome of this really doesn't affect me in any way. I still believe Tobin makes great/innovative gear, I just think that for the sake of his public image, Tobin should reconsider entering into the pages and pages of heated arguments I see on scubaboard.... (and by no means is this limited to him).

I completely agree ... to repeat something I have stated in another thread along these lines ... "An astute businessperson understands that bashing your competitor on the Internet is a lose-lose proposition" ... as you so correctly note, it lowers the opinion of the public toward not only the bashed, but also the basher.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[realdiver7]

Even though it's very hard to sit idle when you want to defend yourself, neither professional should air his "dirty laundry" in a public forum. That is what private messages are for. I also agree the high road should be taken. It does get old watching adults throw darts at each other, whether it be on the offensive or the defensive side of the issue. Some buyers will even shy away from both sellers over a thread like this (lose/lose situation).

Any intelligent buyer will not listen to arguments from either side; they will simply buy what works for them. The rest is wasted Internet band width.

Bottom line, anything you buy is going to be a compromise between one thing or another anyway. Period.

 

[theatis]

It's 3am here in AZ and I can't sleep... thanks, Theatis!

"

Hi Stephen, as i already said i didn't mean to offend you, or cause you insomnia!

It's Orthodox Easter Sunday today so i have no time to post anything substantial but i owe you the courtesy of responding to your PM and will definitely do so later.

 

[mmadiver]

What Ash is claiming about the DSS rig is completely true. The first time I assembled my rig the plate and tank did not line up. After a few minor adjustments everything was perfect. If I hold the tank valve and top of the plate and apply some searious torque I can force them to misalign slightly. For that to happen on its own it would take nothing short of being hit by a boat.

I like my singles rig and will be ordering a doubles DSS rig as well. Tobin answered all of my questions and was always professional. I have also been witness to the mud slinging that takes place on these boards between the various producers and it isnt pretty. I wouldn't put it below someone to pretend to be a customer just to knock someone's gear...

 

[lowwall]

lundy,

Tobin's not "a salesperson," he's the designer. So it's not surprising he gets a little emotionally involved.

You also have to take this in context. There's a history here of two people who are never satisfied with DSS gear and everybody else who is satisfied. Once again, it's not surprising that Tobin gets overheated when one of these two pop up with yet another "problem" they've encountered.

This is just my opinion based on reading many of the DSS threads - I don't own any DSS gear, but am seriously thinking about getting a BP/W so have been reading all these threads very closely.