Need help sinking

[dannobee]

I don't know which BC you have, but are you sure that you have all of the air out of it? Some seem to have air bubbles that never seem to leave. Try this next time you're going in the pool; before you get in, check your inflator to make sure it works, then suck all of the air out (reversing your manual inflating skill). Now head for the shallow part of the pool, THEN do your bouyancy check or try to sit down on the bottom if it's less than 4 feet deep. You should be able to sink like a rock (assuming you've exhaled enough). And to be clear on your wetsuit, by your description, you mean a 7mm farmer john bottom half (up to mid chest area), then a shortie type over that? Two pieces of neoprene, not three, right? I agree with the others though, with 40 lbs you should sink like a rock.

 

[friscuba]

There seems to be a question if you are wearing a farmer john and core warmer, or a farmer john, jacket and core warmer. If you are wearing a full 21 mil then no wonder it's taking that much weight. If not, I suspect it's a breathing issue.

When I first started, I took 40# and a steel tank to get down in a 6.5mil farmer john and jacket in salt water. I was overweight (physically) and excited. These days I'm still overweight, and diving where I only need a three mil, but I dive with 10-12 lbs with an aluminum tank and can do less if I want.

You might want to try doing your pool skills with less rubber 'til you can get yourself more comfortable. If you are having to be held down to do skills, you really aren't ready for open water no matter what the reason for the extra buoyancy... you should be able to do the skills unassisted and relaxed. It's surprising how much extra weight it can take if you are breathing off the top of your lungs without realizing it. I've had some students get down comfortably with a particular weight, and then get a bit excited when it was time to do skills and need a couple extra lbs, then do OK for a minute, then get excited again and require more weight yet and so on.... Have had one diver actually require 8 added lbs beyond what they really needed and they were able to shed it all by the second day of confined water because they had gotten themselves comfortable by that point.

Over time your need for all the weight will diminish. Have fun with the class.

Steve

I'm taking my OW certification in Northern Ca and I'm having a lot of trouble sinking. I've searched all the posts on weight adjustment but still have questions. I'm a female, 5'7, 200#. I'm wearing a 7mm farmer john with a 7mm core warmer, and 7 mm Henderson boots. I know I have a lot of buoyancy with the gear but even with 40+lbs of weight, letting all the air out of the bc and a nice relaxed exhale I can't get under. My instructors gave me a pull to the bottom of the pool to do the bc removal skill but they literally had to hold me down to even try. Needless to say this was a bit frustrating and distracting and I wasn't able to get into position to do the skills. When I was able to get under for a time my feet continued to surface and I would find myself back up top. I've picked up ankle weights in hopes it will help with the horizontal when I do get down. Any other ideas? Am I just suffering from the newbie buoyancy syndrome and bad breathing? Any help is appreciated, I'm supposed to do my ocean dive next weekend and I think being underwater would help. :^)

 

[Yikes]

Hi All -

Just to clarify, we are wearing a 7mm farmer john and a 7mm core warmer, for a total of 14mm of neoprene. Since we are diving in the 50 degree waters of Monterey, I can't really go with less warmth. I also was the only person in the class having the bouyancy problem at the last pool class. Well, one other person had trouble at first, but after adding more weight she was able to descend. I know I will be over weighted, but I have to be able to get to the bottom and do the skills and get comfy in the water.

The first pool session we only wore the 7mm farmer john and I still had the bouyancy issue (that was with 30 lbs. of weight), although mostly with my legs and feet. We had the full suit on this week so we could start getting used to it, trouble is I just couldn't sink...even after two instructors dragged me down to 12' to see if I would then stay down, I just slowly floated back up.

Unfortunately, the option of a dry suit (both the extra class and renting or buying one) is not possible right now, nor is buying my own wetsuit - trust me, I would love to be able to do get my own westsuit - but financial resources are extremely tight this month and next. My instructor and I discussed these options as well.

Someone asked what type of BC we are using in the class, it is the Malibu.

I have spoken to my instructor and we will be adding at least one additional pool session before we go to the ocean. I am worried that if I continue to have these problems on our last pool session I won't be able to do the ocean dives - since I am not able to practice the skills being taught. Also, from what I have read, the saltwater will make me even more bouyant...so I clearly need to get the weight/bouyancy issue figured out pronto.

Thanks for all the great advice, I welcome any other suggestions!

 

[pasley]

...3. Failure to exhale / relax completely and 4. Kicking your feet while trying to descend (You might not notice this, but many new divers actually keep themselves from sinking by kicking their feet.) Make sure your feet are not moving when trying to descend. A person your size and weight should need no more than 30lbs to get down. If you are using a steel tank you should need no more than 26 pounds. A Good Instructor should be able to figure out your problem... don't be shy... ask for help...

IMHO these two are the most probably cause of your issues. A lung absolutly full of air, which is natural and taught to you all your life. Going under water, take a big breath because you will need it. But not in SCUBA. Exhale, and then exhale some more and then some more, empty the lungs, then take a small breath if you have to and exhall a lot more.

The kicking the feet is very common. Kicking the feet sends you up while you are trying to go down. Every notice that when in water you automatically start moveing your legs in a kicking motion. Waiving the hands around also creats lift. Be absolutly still all over your body and relax.

A dry suit would IMHO only be worse. A whole suit with air in it. Nope, not going to work for you at this time in your diving career. Solve the problems with the wet suit. Seems like you are wearing too much lead for even fresh water even for the type of wetsuit you are wearing, so the cause of the problem must be someplace else as mentioned above.

 

[Yikes]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I used a little bit of everything and it was all very helpful. Last night I arranged, with a couple of my other classmates to have an extra pool session before our ocean dives. I got hold of different fins and invested borowed cash in the Xcel 8765 semidry suit. The suit and fin investment paid off and, along with all the great advice, I was comfortably sinking with 30# and had the buoyancy down in about 10 minutes. Well, I had it working well enough for a newbie. The change from a 7 farmer john and 7 corewarmer to a 8-7-6-5 one piece semidry suit was amazing. I am far more comfortable now and will be doing the last pool session tonight and the Monterey dives this weekend. So that's my first big newbie problem tackled... now it's on to other "stupid newbie tricks."

 

[Web Monkey]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I used a little bit of everything and it was all very helpful.

The change from a 7 farmer john and 7 corewarmer to a 8-7-6-5 one piece semidry suit was amazing. I am far more comfortable now and will be doing the last pool session tonight and the Monterey dives this weekend. So that's my first big newbie problem tackled

Congratulations!

Terry

 

[ScubaSarus]

Just for discussion

When I got my brand new F/J I rolled it up and hooked 30 lbs to it and it would not sink. Now it will sink with 15 lbs easily

 

[voop]

Hmm...I've got the opposite problem tonight. Got some new gear, and wanted to try it out in the local pool (A 10m deep thingie). So I went, and borrowed a cylinder from the local dive club hanging out there. A 15l steel cylinder...old.....

Add the 15l steel cylinder to my 3Kg steel backplate...then add me and my neoprene drysuit with an undersuit....and I sank like a rock without any additional weight whatsoever. Not something that my wing couldn't bring under control easilly, but in a drysuit I normally still need just a little bit of weight to hit equilibrium.

Ahh, a balanced rig is hard to achieve when tossing around unfamiliar gear...

(Okok, so the new gear I got was a new liftbag, but I needed an excuse for going to the pool anyways)

 

[Bobby]

Scratch everything I had put and the difference must be the tank. If you are used to diving an AL tank then yes you will sink with the steel. Steel is more negative then AL and you should need less if not no weight. A 6 Kg back plate and you should be able to start a dive with no weight even with AL but will probably need 1-2 Kg for when the tank is near empty at the end of the dive and still be able to stay down for a safety stop.

Bobby

 

[voop]

Scratch everything I had put and the difference must be the tank. If you are used to diving an AL tank then yes you will sink with the steel. Steel is more negative then AL and you should need less if not no weight. A 6 Kg back plate and you should be able to start a dive with no weight even with AL but will probably need 1-2 Kg for when the tank is near empty at the end of the dive and still be able to stay down for a safety stop.

Bobby

Heh, I'm used to diving steel -- I downright dislike AL-tanks (let the flames begin, but I do). This particular steel-tank was just insanely heavy: a quick tour on the scale (otherwise destined for humans trying to shread body-mass in the pool) revealed that it was a good 4Kg more than my own steel 15l tanks. One wonders....

Ohh, and btw...a 6kg backplate? Yikes, that sounds heavy -- I think that yes, even with AL80'es, no additional weights would be required to sink.

Revelation no. 2 from the pool yesterday: I borrowed a pair of split-fins from a student for half an hour, you know, just to try......they're entirely as bad as everybody says -- true, one doesn't get cramps, but one doesn't get propulsion either