Need help in selecting Dig SLR

[mswicord]

I'm getting ready to purchase my 1st underwater camera and need help in selecting the rig. I dive both ow and cave. The camera will be used in OW most of the time for macro shots. I need info on what would be the best camera, housing and flash at a reasonable price.

Any input will be helpful.

Mark

 

[SwimsWithSharks]

I'm getting ready to purchase my 1st underwater camera and need help in selecting the rig. I dive both ow and cave. The camera will be used in OW most of the time for macro shots. I need info on what would be the best camera, housing and flash at a reasonable price.

Any input will be helpful.

Mark

Mark,

Reasonable price is relative. For many people, the phrases Digital SLR and reasonable price are mutually exclusive phrases. Right now the two leading DSLRs for the enthusiast seem to be the Canon 20D and the Nikon D70. On my web site, I have links to a trip report by Matt Segal on the 20D, some information from Peter Schulz about the D70 and a comparison of the two cameras. I also have a link to some information about choosing lenses.

I assume you don't already have a collection of lenses. If so, choose wisely because once you start down the road of lenses, it is much harder to change brands. If you already have lenses that can be used, the decision will be much easier.

Investing in a DSLR is only the first step. Second, there will be lenses. Third, a housing. Fourth, ports. Fifth, strobes. It would be very easy to spend $4-5,000 just to begin with.

I am interested to see how people do with the Olympus Evolt but right now, the housing choices are limited.

Hopefully this will give you some information to get started. Ryan at Reef Photo and Video is an excellent resource. Also, to the extent that I can, I am willing to answer questions.

Good luck and let us know what you choose.

 

[ssra30]

I agree that Nikon D70 or Canon D20 would be the way to go for most people. If you start from scratch, I might consider D70 over D20 a little bit in your case. Both cameras are very good, D20 has slight edge overall I think but Nikon still has better ranges of lenses for underwater use in my mind. Since you are going to be shooting macro mostly, Canon has 50mm/100 macro while Nikon has 60mm/105mm but one lens that Canon does not have is the 70-180mm macro lens which I like a lot (although people with Canon are doing just fine without it). 70-180mm macro lens is a bit difficult to locate nowaday but it adds a bit more option to macro side.
On the wide angle side, Nikon also has 10.5mm fisheye lens which under the right situation, is an incredible lens as well. I think first you will need to see all your options, not just the camera but choice of lenses, housing etc as well before making up your mind.

 

[GoBlue!]

I'm interested in this thread as well. We're expecting our first child, and I want to have a dSLR ready to go.... I shot film SLR for years, but have been a point-and-shoot guy out of laziness for the last several years. I do not have lenses for an SLR camera currently, so I'm starting from scratch.

A recent visit to a photo shop had me looking at Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70, and the new Canon Rebel XT. I will definitely want to be taking these underwater, but that'll probably be a year down the road, so I'm not concerned if a housing hasn't been made yet for the Rebel XT (Canon 350D).

Now, while image quality seems identical between the 20D and Rebel XT from what I've read, the XT is in a smaller, less "rugged" body. I've got average size hands, so the controls didn't seem to bother me as some people have complained of....granted, I've used it all of 10 minutes in the shop so far. Of course, I can't imagine that size & quality of body make up the $500-odd difference between the Rebel XT and 20D.

An interesting comparison, though, seems to be the 20D and the Nikon D70. A substantial cost difference, and they both appear to be excellent cameras. I haven't found a great review comparing these two animals.... Since I'm not coming in with a slew of lenses, I could go either way. I'm also not used to one camera manufacturer's menu system, etc., so I'll get used to whatever I purchase.

Can anyone help with some of my confusion??

Thanks,
Jim

 

[RonFrank]

If you are impacted by the $500 price difference between the 20D and the D70, get ready for a serious SHOCK if you want to take EITHER UW.

The housing is going to run at LEAST 1K, and that is WITHOUT a port (lens thingymajig). Of course if you expect to get performance out of ANY DSLR UW, get ready to spend at LEAST 1K on a flash.

IMO UW DSLR is ABSOLUTELY the way to fly IF you 1) have bucks to blow on stuff that is just fun to own, or 2) are a professional.

I AM a professional photographer, and my solution...... a Canon S70 with housing.

I own a D1x, and a LOT of Nikon lenses as well as a host of flash equipment, heck MF Hassy, studio strobes, backdrops, the works.. BUT when it comes to UW equipment, it's VERY expensive if you are not making a living shooting UW.

Another factor is size, those UW housing for the SLR's are BIG.

IMO, the BEST DSLR's for the serious amateur shooter are the D70 , and the 20D. Forget about the difference in mpix as it's more to do with ego vs. how the camera's perform. Both are great tools. IMO Nikon software wins hands down, as does their layout, menus, and more traditional style. Canon howerver is also very good, and the D20 is a bit faster in the fps area vs. the Nikon, however IMO not worth the extra expense.

So there you go.....

If you want to read more a good site is

www.dpreview.com

 

[GoBlue!]

If you are impacted by the $500 price difference between the 20D and the D70, get ready for a serious SHOCK if you want to take EITHER UW.

The housing is going to run at LEAST 1K, and that is WITHOUT a port (lens thingymajig). Of course if you expect to get performance out of ANY DSLR UW, get ready to spend at LEAST 1K on a flash.

I realize that UW dSLR will run me well upwards of $5000 to start, no matter what SLR body I buy. That's not really the issue. While I don't mind spending a lot of money on great equipment, I see no reason to needlessly spend an extra $500-700 if there is really not much of a difference between the Canon D20 & Nikon D70. I'm not cheap by any means, but I like to spend wisely.

As I said in my previous post, this will start out primarily as a topside camera. Perhaps I'll throw my ol' Powershot A70 in a cheap housing to play UW in the meantime, but I just have a feeling I'll be itching to spend the big bucks over the next couple years and assemble an UW dSLR rig.

IMO, the BEST DSLR's for the serious amateur shooter are the D70 , and the 20D. Forget about the difference in mpix as it's more to do with ego vs. how the camera's perform. Both are great tools. IMO Nikon software wins hands down, as does their layout, menus, and more traditional style. Canon howerver is also very good, and the D20 is a bit faster in the fps area vs. the Nikon, however IMO not worth the extra expense.

There, you said it yourself. "...not worth the extra expense." Thanks for your message.

Jim

 

[dbh]

I'm interested in this thread as well. We're expecting our first child, and I want to have a dSLR ready to go.... I shot film SLR for years, but have been a point-and-shoot guy out of laziness for the last several years. I do not have lenses for an SLR camera currently, so I'm starting from scratch.

A recent visit to a photo shop had me looking at Canon EOS 20D, Nikon D70, and the new Canon Rebel XT. I will definitely want to be taking these underwater, but that'll probably be a year down the road, so I'm not concerned if a housing hasn't been made yet for the Rebel XT (Canon 350D).

Now, while image quality seems identical between the 20D and Rebel XT from what I've read, the XT is in a smaller, less "rugged" body. I've got average size hands, so the controls didn't seem to bother me as some people have complained of....granted, I've used it all of 10 minutes in the shop so far. Of course, I can't imagine that size & quality of body make up the $500-odd difference between the Rebel XT and 20D.

An interesting comparison, though, seems to be the 20D and the Nikon D70. A substantial cost difference, and they both appear to be excellent cameras. I haven't found a great review comparing these two animals.... Since I'm not coming in with a slew of lenses, I could go either way. I'm also not used to one camera manufacturer's menu system, etc., so I'll get used to whatever I purchase.

Can anyone help with some of my confusion??

Thanks,
Jim

The way I see it, it boils down to making a commitment to either Nikon or Canon at this point. I have seen people try to compare the D70 to the 20D but that is not comparing apples to apples. The D70 was Nikon's answer to the first Digital Rebel. Nikon's replacement for the D100 should be their answer to the 20D. Nikon is a MUCH smaller company than Canon and seems to be playing "catch up" the last few years. The fact that people compare the D70 to a "higher end" camera tells me it is a capable camera underwater (which I know because I use one). I agree that Nikon has a little better lens selection at this time but Canon is making up ground.

Same theme also for housings. You need to do your homework and pick a housing that you you think that you will happy with for a long time. Just as if you change camera bodies you can still re-use your lenses, you can re-use ports if / when you upgrade housings (IE. Nexus ports will work with all current & future Nexus housings).

HTH,
Dave

 

[f3nikon]

I'm getting ready to purchase my 1st underwater camera and need help in selecting the rig. I dive both ow and cave. The camera will be used in OW most of the time for macro shots. I need info on what would be the best camera, housing and flash at a reasonable price.

Any input will be helpful.

Mark

" You cannot shoot what you cannot see"

The fundamentel problem most beginners overlook with an UW DSLR or SLR is that there is a MIRROR blocking the view of the CCD sensor or film (SLR). So the LCD display is totally useless before one snaps the picture! In any SLR or DSLRs you are totally relying on the VIEWFINDER to see the image before taking the shot. The LCD display can be used to review the picture but by the time you are ready to make the correction, that fish is long gone.

Next time you go out to kick some tires for an UW use DSLR, try this simple test, hold the viewfinder about 4 inches from your eye. Now which of the cameras below could you see the greatest amout of image area from 4 inches away? You guess it, the Nikon D2H/D2X has the largest DSLR viewfinder to date and an added bonus, the UW housing, 2X viewfinder magnifier bolts on directly to the ROUND D2 eyepiece making the image even larger! The LCD display is also a large 2.5 inches!

The Evolt has the smallest view finder of the four, also one of the largest Gimmick I have seen in a while. If there was an advantage in placing the mirror sideways they would have done so a long time ago.

Could this be why I see a much better composed UW pictures from a point and shoot 5050/5060 (LCD viewfinder) than a low end DSLR?

 

[RonFrank]

There, you said it yourself. "...not worth the extra expense." Thanks for your message.

Jim

Nikon WA lenses are better then the current Canon offering. Granted both manufactures produce very good optics in the high end. However the 17-35mm f2.8, and the 12-24mmf4 both outperform what Canon offers. I'm betting the 17-55mm f2.8 DX lens is also awesome, but have not done the research.

I played around with a 20D a couple weeks back. Other than the fact that I hate Canon's layout and menus (or at least I'm just not used to them) it seemed like a very nice camera. I can not say as much for the kit lens. That thing must be pure plastic as the build quality and feel were pure junk. I'm sure it takes OK photo's, but it's definately not built to stand the test of time. I'm much more impressed with the Nikon kit lens, and the Nikon 18-35mm lens for MUCH less $$$ gives the 17-35mm f2.8 a run for the money at a MUCH lower cost (I own both).

IMO the D70 is the way to go HOWEVER I have NOT really checked out the New Rebel that Canon announced. If it's as dumbed down as the current Rebel (D300 I think) than forgetaboutit, but I *think* that Canon did not make that mistake again.

Another thought is that Nikon WILL come out with a new D100 replacement this year, I'm guessing an Oct announcedment. Will this camera be worth the wait, well if it has a 12mpix sensor like the D2x, IMO yes. If it has an 8mpix sensor, than no. The D2x sensor however is the sharpest DSLR 35mm style camera to date IMO. Man that thing REALLY puts out HIGH quality images. I'm considering dumping my MF gear for the D2x.

 

[RonFrank]

I agree that comparing the D70 with the D20 is a bit off target. However the D70 was such a feature packed product, it actually stacks up very well against the D20.

The bottom line is that the D20 is a bit faster, and has wireless capabilities. The focus system may also be a bit better, but I'm not sure. FPS hardly matter UW in that the D70 I think does 3, and the D20 5, both more than enough for UW action.

The reality is that either camera will produce AWESOME images. When a tools is this well designed and feature packed it is NOT the tool that is the issue if the photography is not up to the task, but rather the user.

I'm always amazed at how many buy these products, and then don't bother to learn anything about composition, lighting (the key), or even such basics as aperture and DOF.

I was at the Grand Canyon a while back, and a guy with a D70 asked me to shoot an image of him and partner. I looked at the settings, and he was in P mode. I asked if he wanted to to go into Aperture priority, and increase or decrease the DOF, IOW's what type of shot was he looking for? He said, what is an aperture?